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I have an older 14" Delta bandsaw with the riser block. I'm in the process of tuning it up; urethane tires, bearing roller guides, new fence, etc. I also want to take out the 3/4 horse motor and drop in a 3 horse motor I've been holding onto. First question... is the larger motor too much for the cast Delta frame to handle? Second question ... if I've calculated correctly, the current motor rpm/drive/driven pulley combination is good for 3160 sfpm. Would I benefit by increasing the sfpm at all? I plan on doing a little resawing, but use it mainly for ripping, curved cuts, etc. I've seen a lot of discussion on this in the woodworking forums, but I wanted to get some input from you guys. Thanks.

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Jim Womack

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for. "
Will Rogers

Hi Jim,

There is a gentleman up here in Canada who owns a company called R&D Bandsaws which manufactures TuffTooth blades. His name is Bob Deerlove and he has a vast knowlegde of several bandsaw brands and, as I understand, used the Delta 14 for quite a while on the woodshow circuit throughout Canada. He is a true gentleman and I'm sure he would be happy to answer an email. His contact info is:

R&D Bandsaws
42 Regan Road, Unit 18
Brampton, Ontario L7A 1B4
Orders: 1-800-461-3895
Information: (905) 840-0399
Fax: (905) 840-4398
E-mail: info@tufftooth.com
Web Site: http://www.tufftooth.com/

Good luck
Rick

I appreciate what you're saying Todd, but I'm not in the market for a new saw at the moment. I have less than $200 in the saw, including upgrades so I'm staying put for now.
Thanks Rick for the contact info, I may shoot Bob an email.

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Jim Womack

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for. "
Will Rogers

Jim,
First off that is a great old saw. If I was given the choice of a old cast iron Delta or a new welded sheet steel I would take the old cast iron. I don't know where this cast iron is inferior to welded sheet steel thing got started but it has always been the opposite. All things being equal cast iron is supperior. More vibration eating mass. 3hp is more than enough for that saw. 2 hp would be fine. You asked if it was too much motor and if the saw would take it. You could put a 10 hp on there if you wanted. As long as the speed was right I don't see what difference a bigger motor would make to the saw as far as the saw being able to handle it. You might have to mount it (the motor) on the floor though. I wouldn't increase your speed 3160 is about right.
I don't like the roller bearing guides. To weird to adjust and not as much support as guide blocks. Also I am not a big fan of ureathane tires. If your wheels are perfect then fine but are they ? I think it better to put rubber tires on and true them. Even if your wheels are not perfect you can true and crown the rubber tires so they are. I don't think you can do that with the ureathane.
You said you were "tuning up" the saw. New guides check, new tires check, new fence......... ok but not going to work any better than a shop made plywood one. How about checking the wheel bearings and replacing if needed, balancing the wheels, truing and crowning the wheels, adjusting the wheels so they are co-planer under tension. Also one of those link belts helps with vibration.
You can put new springs on the upper wheel. Get them at MSC for about $4 to $6 instead of $15 or more that the one place charges. Heat a tooth brush handle and bend. A couple of holes and mount with screws. Angle it across the wheel so it runs the sawdust off. That saw can be tuned to cut 1/16" veneers 6" wide that can be glued right off the saw and cut backs and sides sets as good as anything you get from the venders. No more than a 1/2" blade and more likely 3/8" for resawing. It is a myth you need a wide blade to resaw. Better to use a blade you saw can tension than to go wider and under tension a blade. In reality most of the small 14" to 18" saws (cast or sheet steel) can be made to cut well enough to do most guitar making tasks. Cutting out a back and side set is not that demanding a job.
Anyway put that motor that saw, leave the speed, and tune her up and it will handle anything you need it to.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Contact Itura Design... google I think.

Michael, does ANYBODY make a quick release for the Jet 18"? I know the new model comes with it...

Good info, Link...I like your style and philosophy on this bandsaw. It definitely agrees with what Lou Iturra has said over the phone. Iturra is a great source of info and products, especially for the 14" Delta. Call him at 866-883-8064 and be sure to get their catalog...it's free and better than any bandsaw resource I've ever seen!

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Yeah great post Link my friend.

The one thing that I don't understand is after you install your toothbrush isn't it a little tough to brush one's teeth?

Sorry - long day here.....

Thanks JJ, I already have Lou's catalog... replaced the tension spring with one of his. Some good stuff there, Link, thanks. I'm trying to tune up the saw on the cheap. The fence I built myself... 1 1/2" square aluminum tubing for rails with a birch ply fence. Works fine. I made the roller guides too, just some 1/2" bearings and some 1/2" sq. aluminum stock. As for the tires, the tire on the lower drive wheel was shot so I just replaced both. Everyone seems to think that urethane tires are the way to go, so that's what I did. I did run into a snag with the motor. After taking a closer look this afternoon, I realized that it runs at 3450 rpm. The smallest pulley I could get for a 5/8 shaft was 1.75" which puts the blade speed at 3600 sfpm assuming I don't change out the driven pulley... which I don't really want to do. When I spoke with Lou, he mentioned that he runs his Deltas around 4000 sfpm, so I think I'll be OK. Again, thanks for the responses, all.

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Jim Womack

"Be thankful we're not getting all the government we're paying for. "
Will Rogers

Jim,
No worries on the speed. 3600 is right in there ! If you get a chance snap a picture of your "home made" guides and fence set up. If the ureathane tires don't work for you, that is if your wheels are not true you can have your wheels trued or it sounds as if you have the chops to do it yourself. I don't know if your saw has aluminum or iron wheels. Aluminum is way easy to true. If you go the ureathane way you need to crown your actual wheel. If you go the rubber way the wheel can be flat or crowned. Go the rubber tire route and true the rubber. Go the ureathane route and crown the wheel. Ping me if you need to know how to do it. A bandsaw is a pretty simple machine but it needs a lot of little things to be just right to run perfectly. You should be able to put a dial indicator on your tire and have it concentric with in just a few thousands. That being said if you put it together and it does what you want then no problem just go with it.
I love band saws !! My favorite tool.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

I want to build one of those fences for thin resaw.

Link, any ideas about the quick release add-on for the jet 18"?

Mike,
I don't know about those quick release add on's. I mean I have no experience with them. They seem like a good idea but I have never used one. My own saws have sat for months under tension with no ill effects. I some times give the wheel a spin when I walk by to move the pressure to a different part of the tire when I think about it. I have seen one saw that had sat for a couple of years with the wheels in one place and blade under tension. There was a difinite .....tha-bump....tha-bump......tha-bump...... from the tire being compressed in one spot. The longer we ran it the smoother it got. It almost went away but we ened up changing the tires anyway. My experience has been with rubber tires also, not urearathane although from what I hear ureathane would be more resistant to being deformed permanently than rubber. Has it been a issue on your saw. Anyway it seems like a good idea and certainly wouldn't hurt. If I had one I would probably use it when I remembered. For me it has never been a issue so I would put my money else where.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

No, not an issue. Guess I am a sucker for marketing?

About them guide blocks. You really like them better than bearings? Are you using them top & bottom?

Mike

Mike,
I have two saws in my shop and I have Carters on them, same guides top and bottom. They have blocks with a rear thrust bearing that is flat, not the ones with the groved bearing turned with the edge on. They are not the easiest guides to adjust but they function really well. Some of the guides I have seen on the newer saws look really good. They have a rear thrust bearing and blocks that directly screw in and out. I don't know about getting these after market. These seem really good to me and easy to adjust. I used to maintain a shop where we put the Carters with the side bearings in. The bearings are mounted off center on a shaft. You spin the bearing around to move closer or further from the blade. I found them a bit of a pain to adjust although they aren't any harder than my block style carters. I also don't like the trust bearing having a grove for the blade. I think the grove is unnecessary as that is the job of the side bearings and it sparks and is unpleasent when the blade hits the edge of the grove. Also one more thing to adjust to get the grove centered and as I said it doesn't do anything in my experience.
I like blocks because I can get them that much closer to the work giving just a little more support. ( As I said super bandsaw performance is a bunch of little things being right.) The bearings contact the blade in the center of the bearing and it is a small contact point as well. I just did a quick little drawing and if your side bearing guide is 1 1/4" o.d. and you put the bearing down to almost on top of the work there will be 1/2" between the work and the contact point of the bearing. With the top and bottom together that is 1" more blade being unsupported than with blocks. When doing operations where you are asking a lot of the saw that can make a difference. Again the little things.
All that being said one can get great performance with the roller guides or about any guide out there if adjusted right. A big point for any type is ease of adjustment which is what seems to attact folks to the idea of roller guides.
A couple more points. I have heard a lot of talk about heat and I have never in 24 years of band saw use found heat to be a issue. I can wrap my lips around a blade after resawing. (Opening for one of Hesh's quips) If your blade is getting to hot to touch something is wrong.
A friend of mine who is a absolute master woodworker has a old bandsaw that has two pieces of wood mounted on a couple of screws for a lower guide. (He has a block style Carter for a upper) He gets the saw running right
and moves the wood in until it just touches the blade. Very well supported. He gets perfect results.

Make sure you take a small stone and stone the outside edges of the back of the band saw blade. You just want to kiss it to smooth it out a bit. This is really helpful when cutting curves but is also good to make sure the blade runs smoothly over the thrust bearing, especially those darn groved ones.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

For those of you who have upgraded a 3/4hp motor to 2+hp, I have a question:

What amps are you drawing? I was afraid of going above 1hp because the saw is on a regular residential 15A circuit. Moving from 3/4 to 1hp didn't seem to make enough difference to justify the effort and expense. So I have a riser, but not the power to cut through 8" of even the softest spruce, let alone a hardwood.

On another forum someone posted that a 1hp motor would draw a peak 15 amps and that anything larger would trip a residential circuit breaker. I rent, so no chance of having an electrician add a 220v circuit for the workshop or higher rated wiring/circuit braker. Are you putting your saws on a special circuit, tripping your breaker, or was the info I got bogus?

Thanks,

Todd has spoken,
I agree with a lot of what you have said but it is stretched to back you opinion. The rhetoric you use is a bit loaded.


Why would you love to believe ? Hype ? What hype ? Huh ?


I agree they give you bang for the buck but they have their problems. A friend bought a 18" Rikon that I had to go through the whole saw plus weld supports where the sheet metal platform that bolted to the floor connects to the body of the saw. Way too much flexing. I'd like to believe the hype but they need tweaking also.



Not true , for one you exaggerated the cost and extent of upgrades: for example a spring for $30 that can be easily had for $6 which I bet you know but you site the most expensive to further your opinion. " Add a riser block...strip and hit all mating surfaces ($100)" Who are you paying to do this 1 hr. job you can do in your own
shop. I bet you did this yourself.


I am keeping track and you have exaggerated. You think the Rikon has a decent fence ??????



This is curious to me. You put $662 into your saw and got it to cut the Bubinga, quite well it looks like and then you dumped it. You must have been pretty happy and proud of it to take pictures to show what you had done. Then you "dumped" (the word suggests garbage) the saw to buy another one ????? This doesn't add up.

That sounds dangerous, tires flying around and such. What higher RPM, how old where the stock tires. Sounds as if the tires needed replacing. The reference to the machine shop and the yard is impressive though.



Neither is the Rikon, or my 20" Northfield, or my 30" Oliver. My 30 Oliver is as good, just not as big. My 20" Northfield isn't anywhere near the saw a 20" Yates is. In fact my 20" cast iron Northfield isn't as good as a old 20" weilded steel Rockwell. There is a example of a sheet steel being better than a cast. You have to consider them separately.
You worked with a 38" bandsaw as a kid, that is impressive. 35 years of tweaking bandsaws is a lot of experience . I bow to your superior knowledge.

Todd, I think you have a lot of knowledge and I have benefited from much of your contributions but you pontificate. Your word is not the last on the subject or any other subject. This is a place to help folks not establish a hierarchy of expertise. Your verbiage is peppered with allusions to how experienced you are and how qualified you are. We get it. You are very talented and know a lot but yours is not the definitive opinion on everything.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

I'm back from work.
My problem is you have now and in the past lumped small cast irons saws in one catagory. They are not all created equal as are the welded steel.
From what you have written now and in the past people can easily infer that welded steel saws are categorically better than cast iron. I feel that is not the whole story. There are a lot of crappy examples of both although up to fairly recent times most cast iron saws at least were worth tuning up and only a handful of welded steel saws could the same be said. The 20 Rockwell is a good one. A couple of smaller older very good cast saws are Walker Turner 16" and Davis and Wells 20" either the all cast (which I used to own and wish I still did) or the one with the sheet steel base. And I still like the older Deltas.

As far as the spring thing MSC has very good quality springs in many different values that will fit the Delta for about $6 the last time I looked a few years ago.

Higher wheel speeds won't throw properly installed and glued rubber tires.

I wish I knew about your saw because I would have bought it. But you are right I wouldn't have used it as my resaw.
However don't you agree that for the average user cutting a few sides and backs now and then it would have been more than adequate.

Anyway I think we have beat this one into the ground.
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

-

Interesting. Some how I don't feel this is a altruistic effort on your part. It seems to be done to prove a point, your point. It would have been more of a cooperative effort if I could have had some say in the spread sheet. So if I go along I bolster your augment. If I don't play along it looks as if I concede. Nicely done. If I have mis-read your intentions then my sincere apologies. However I am not interested in being right I just don't feel that it is good to tell everyone absolutes that might lead them to choices without getting the whole picture. In the case in question it is not black and white.
The interesting thing is that I have never disagreed with you except on one point. That cast irons saws are inferior to sheet steel saws and with the way your views are presented so categorically. I could build a plywood band saw with all the bells and whistles that is better than a cheap welded steel saw but that wouldn't make all plywood saws better. I agree with the impressive options available on the Rikons but options are options, not the meat of the saw. Maybe you got a really good one. The 18" deluxe one I am helping my friend set up has some issues. It is the new 18" model and it flexes too much. However it seems very sturdy between the wheels where the ability to tension properly comes from. He did buy it on my recommendation after we looked it over. We couldn't find him a Davis and Wells, older Delta, or a Walker Turner in the time he had to buy so we/he went with the Rikon. It remains to be seen if the Rikon is a good saw, fair saw, great saw, or lousy saw with a lot of extras included. I am expecting decent. Partially my decision the buy the Rikon was because you had reported good results and reported the ability to tension a 1/2" blade properly. I could see you know your stuff and so took it on good recommendation. I think the saw will work out well for my friend in the end. I also think that Jim Womack's Delta is going to be a nice saw for him as well.
So to sum things up from my end:
-Agreed the Rikon appears to be a good value with some nice features.
-Disagree about rubber tires where applicable. I like the tunability of rubber tires. Rubber tires work well and have for years. This being said I have not personally used the urethane tires. I would like to know more about them especially how you true them and what do you do if you can't true them and your wheel is eccentric. I would love to hear you thoughts on this. I may become a convert. They may be better than rubber. That doesn't make rubber bad.
-Disagree on the welded steel = good cast =bad. Which you have said on other posts as well. A crappy cast saw is a crappy saw. A poorly build BR and ADI guitar is a lousy guitar with good wood.
-Don't see what more hp. on a saw has to do with the 'saw not being able to handle it.' If the blade speed is the same what is the difference ? The blade will determine how fast you can feed the wood into the saw. After you have adequate hp. the rest is superfluous and doesn't do anything one way or another. (It might let you do something you shouldn't like force the cut.)
- Still don't understand why you let your Delta go after putting all the effort and money into it. You had shown a very nice looking 10" cut that seemed to show what it could do. 10" sawn accurately is a mighty tall cut. That is a challenge for even a 30 Oliver. Surely for your use and the occasional 8" back and top wood cuts would be well within that saw. Those cuts don't have to be that clean either.
The points of agreement and disagreement above are me trying to be clear. My questions to you are genuine and not challenges. I do value your views.
-Final note. I appreciate your information and contributions. I have learned and benefited from them. I will continue to follow your posts for opportunities to learn. I ask for a little more respect of me and my information and contributions. I don't want to list my achievements and pedigree to add credence to my opinions. I feel adequately qualified give the advise I give. I try not to talk when I don't know or say when I am less than certain or out of my area of expertise. You could give me the benefit of the doubt. A little give and take between us in a less contentious manner would benefit everyone. (I take my share of the responsibility for the contentious part)
I will not post again on this thread. I will welcome and read your response if you choose to do one. Anything more than that needs to be said we can do it privately if you want.
Sincerely,
Link

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Cut to size.....Beat to fit.....Paint to match.

Link, I think you're stiring up dirt that just isn't there.

Todd has never said he has all the answers, he's just giving the answers that he does have. And for what ever it's worth, he's even asked to work with you so that both YOUR answers and HIS answers can be combined to form a much broader picture. I don't think it's about Todd at all. Really what does he have to gain from "being right"?

So either drop the ego or drop the subject. This has been one of the most informative threads on bandsaws and BOTH of you have great insights to offer. Neither of you has to be "right" and honestly, no one really cares one way or the other if either of you are ultimatly right.

Most people, if they really have the fortitude will listen to what both of you have to say, and do a bit more research will than come up with there own decision.

Besides, it's only a bandsaw. Not a versitile tool like a table saw

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Sounds like some good information(Todd you have always blown me away with your knowledge of tools ).

Keep your blades clean, cool, and use plenty of vaccume . Best advise I can think of.