Official Luthiers Forum!

Just curious?
Worked as apprentice?
Books/DVD?
Workshops?

How did you do it?

Thanks
Richard

I agree with Todd. I can't really say I have "learned" the art/science of luthiery. I havn't finished my first guitar yet, but I can say what's been helping. I might recommend getting a set of plans. It'll help get you through it. Don't be afraid to make a lot of mistakes. Just keep going. The guys on this forum are awesome - use em. Good luck.

I've been tinkering with guitars since I was 16. That would be 45 years now. I built an electric guitar and an electric bass when I was in High School. They were both really crude, but they worked. I used mahogany I got at the local lumberyard for the bodies, and cherry I got from a friend for the necks. The pickups came from Lafayette Radio. I used HO scale rail stock for the frets.

In '85 I bought a Jazz Bass copy in a pawn shop and started a continuous improvement program that lasted just about 20 years on that bass. It has had 5 different necks and three different sets of pickups. Now it has a MIM Fender neck on it and a set of Bartolini P/J pickups. The only piece of the original bass that remains is the body itself.

Seven years ago I wanted a really nice electric guitar, and after looking the Gibson Les Pauls (couldn't afford 'em) and Epiphone Les Pauls (necks too fat) I decided to assemble a Strat from parts. It came out really good. I started building and selling guitars and basses from parts and selling them on Ebay, but the profit margin was really slim. Then I started making the bodies and necks and found I could make a lot more per instrument.

Then I found a 4-part TV program on the DIY Channel on the building of a Martin D-28 type guitar by Lynn Dudenbostel, and after watching the program several times decided that I could do that, and in January 2005 I started construction of my first acoustic guitar. I also studied several online resources on acoustic guitar building, and carefully studied the three acoustic guitars I owned at that time (two Takamines and a T Haruo). So far I've built four acoustic guitars and two acoustic bass guitars, and have two more acoustic guitars under construction.

I have taken no classes and done no apprenticeships - I've learned what I've learned by studying guitars and guitar plans, locating and studying online resources, and by asking questions and studying the posts on forums like this one.

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---Steve

The luthier I used did a partial refret on a guitar for me and a setup on another, which moved, he invited me back and got me to do the setup, then over the phone advised me on repairs since and I bought Dan Erliwines repair book, then I bought the Kinkade book, then a mate gave me some wood and I got stuck in using the plans in the back and posting loads of questions here I then bought cumpiano I'd finished the box and found an evening class 1 1/2 hrs away and started attending there Joel invited me to his workshop to help on the bracing.

I think you need plans for one once you know basic dimensions then you can start to build off the cuff and don't be scared to break from convention.

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Formerly JJH

I learn more from my mistakes than my successes

I'll second that - I used StewMac's "Herringbone Guitar" plans for my first acoustic, but I developed my own designs for the acoustic bass guitars and the two jumbo 12's I've built since.

--Steve

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---Steve

What Todd said... plus, IMHO, start with a highly serviced kit (see John Hall at Blues Creek Guitars, a sponsor here).

I built two that way, the first was a miserable failure. The second a I am proud of. My third guitar is a harp guitar (see my avatar) and I did all of that from scratch (not the avatar! that is a REAL Dyer Harp Guitar)

I suggest John because he is available over the phone to talk with you. No way to learn it all before you start. Just get a kit and start making sawdust. The other thing is, do not worry about screwing up. Money asside, you biggest investment is time. The money part is cheap and minescule compared to other educational processes.

Mike

Todd is dead on !
Especially about the mistakes ! WHEW!!!
We all make mistakes no matter how much experience we have-unless everything is done with a CNC machine !
Just find a style you want to make & get as much help as you can from the OLF members.
This is the place to be !

Good luck & start making guitars !!

Mike

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Mike Collins

I took a class at Palomar Community College in northern San Diego County. Designed to teach the entire process from wood selection, milling (no kits here), jig making and basic construction. It takes two semesters of one night a week, but everyone builds one basic (dred or classical) guitar. At the end of the second semester, we are invited to submit our guitars to the county fair for judging.

Best thing I've ever done!

"How did your learn the art and science of lutherie"

I didn't - at least not yet and IMHO the learning never ends.

The more you know the more you become aware that you don't know it all AND that no one ever will.

If the question was "how are you learning the art and science of lutherie" my answer would be the following:

1) The usual suspect books mentioned above
2) Instructional videos
3) Building, building, and building.
4) The OLF which has been the greatest source for what I have learned so far.

I started with a very bad dulcimer kit when I was in the Navy. My first guitar was built using Sloan's book (the only one at the time), and was, shall we say, not up to current standards. After that I worked with Tom Knatt, who ran weekly classes (and still does, I think). He introduced me to Carleen Hutchins and Fred Dickens, and together Tom and I took a course on lute construction from Joel Van Lennep. I got hammered dulcimer plans from the Smithsonian, iirc, and figured out how to make harps from a few books. After that I just worked things out.

I've been teaching for some time myself, and I think everybody learns differently. Some folks can work from a book, and others need a live instructor, but I agree that you can't learn without doing.

The fact that there's always something to learn is one of the best parts of this whole activity. I learn from my students, and from teaching: there's nothing like having to explain something to make you really think it through. I seem to buy every book on acoustics I can find; each one has something in it that the others have missed. It's a real drag when I have to miss a New England Luthier's meeting: somebody always has something nifty to show or talk about. GAL and ASIA meetings are great; not only can you look at lots of other people's work, and go to all the talks, but you can corner some of the best in the business and force information out of them at the point of a beer bottle or coffee cup.

A carpenter friend of miine once said that he could easily fill a 300 page notebook with little carpenter tricks, and if he showed it to another carpenter that guy would say: "Yeah, but you forgot these", and fill another. There's no end to this. Anybody who says they know it all is fooling themself. Heck, why do you think I'm here?

I'm learning the art and science through building and research mostly.And the more i learn,the more i want to learn.And i have learned alot here at OLF.

hi Richard
I have loved music all my life and have played for many years, in doing so I have often considerd the relationship between the player,instrument, music and listner.
I have tried to develop my skills as a player as best I can.
I have tried to write music which, to me (and hopefully others) has some quality.
And as I retired last year I have time and space to devote to the instrument (making) side of things and see if I can create something which inspires me to make music on.
As for the listeners, I’ll leave them to decide.
I’m lucky enough to be doing a two year course in Stringed Musical Instrument Making and Repair in Glasgow and we are being tutored to do the whole process with hand tools, hot hide glue and french polish. It’s a lot to learn never mind actually do, but I would’nt want any other way.
Oh and I find this forum is invaluable to me as a source of level headed experience.
yours Geordie

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some tunes on acoustic and guitar synth.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGeordieAdams
http://www.myspace.com/geordieadams

Self-ordained. I put my hand on a rock, looked up at the sky, and said, "Ah aym a loothier!"



[Extra credit if you know the reference]

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Many years ago an older friend said to me”there are people who don’t know and then there are people who don’t know that they don’t know”. It took when a long time to figure out that he was telling me that I was the latter.
The more I learn, the more questions I have. I realize now that asking the question is often more important than the answer.

I just wish I knew now what I did when I was 20.

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Rich S

"The inconvenience of poor quality will linger long after the thrill of a bargain has been forgotten"

I've been taking Alan Carruth's class every other Saturday for about a year and a half. I had no prior woodworking experience what-so-ever but Alan said it would be fine. I'd read all the books everyone always mentions and understood what they were talking about for the most part. However, there were several parts I had no clue what they were talking about. Since I've always been better at learning by having things explained and shown to me, I decided I should find someone who teaches guitar building. I found a link to Alan's website somewhere or other. I contacted him and visited his shop one Saturday and two weeks later, I was picking out eir and spruce to start working on an OM. At first there were times when I was thinking I was in way over my head but once I got past that, I started feeling pretty good about it. Even when I make a mistake (and I've made a few big ones!), I've been amazed at how Alan says "gee, that never happens to me" and proceeds to help you fix it because it's happened to him. Seems the most important thing I've learned is that there aren't too many mistakes you can make that can't be fixed. Some of the things that I thought were going to be really hard turned out to be fairly easy (like carving the neck) and other things that I hadn't even thought about were really hard (fitting the neck). I'm also still learning how to use all of the tools but I'm having a lot of fun. And Chladni patterns are cool! I can't wait to finish this one and start another one. Probably an SJ. Anyway, it's been a great experience and I'm learning a lot. I'm very glad I decided to take the class with Alan. If you aren't someone who learns well from reading (like me), I'd recommend finding a luthier who offers classes. Plus, you get to hang out all day with people who actually want to talk about building guitars. I've noticed that my friends eyes tend to glaze over after a few minutes of me talking about guitar building. It's nice to have someplace to talk about rosette designs and binding choices with people who are actually interested!

Matt

I actually started while I was in college. I had a squirer affinity which I sold then I started seeing other peers playing guitars and I wanted one but didn't want to pay another 300 dollars again so I bought a saga kit on ebay for 100. Then After I painted everything I was wondering why it didn't look as good as a guitar from the store, so I started reading and discovered guitar reranch about how to paint a guitar the right way. Well several thousand dollars later (was also doing gunsmithing on the side) I made a lot of mistakes and painting guitars was getting really frustrating because the paint stayed soft forever and I was sanding through stuff. Well after I came back to Taiwan I restarted after doing time in the military and stuff, was going to get pre painted Warmoth stuff but the added cost meant added custom charge so I just got bare bodies and learned to be patient, and now my bodies and necks turned out really well. Then I was looking at Stewmac guitar kit and I really wanted to do an acoustic guitar, because I don't want to be an assembler forever and it's time that I start doing luthery work rather than just assembling stuff. So after years of reading stewmac instructions and getting some basic tools (routers) and doing an amp cabinet, I got my first serviced kit and it was great. Wasn't perfect but sounded good (according to other players) the only issue was the sharp fret since I didn't spend too much time on that...

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Wholehearted agreement w/ above...

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https://soundcloud.com/jeffreylsuits/he ... -runnin-13

I started in the dark ages before the Internet
My first guitar I bought was cheap and needed repair in about two months.
When I took it to the shop the guy said you usually throw those away when they go bad.
So I took it apart and fixed it myself.
In that process I learned what solid wood was.
I built an electric first just to experience building a neck mostly.
I had a wonderful hardwood supplier down the road from me in Springfield VA.
Bought Sloans book, got a copy of the LMI catalogue and built my first acoustic guitar which I still play today.

My idea was that I will learn by doing. I would not spend countless hours on details of rosettes and bindings and first study the general principals. Even today after 50 guitars or so my details are still very basic especially compared to some of the beautiful stuff I see on this forum.

But I have developed a body style and sound that is unique

About 25 years ago, I stumbled across Sloane's classical guitar making book in a friend's library. It is not considered a complete manual by most of today's builders, but for me it sort of demystified the whole concept of building a guitar. In other words, I came away with the notion: "I'm a good wood worker. I bet I could do that." "I had already been the mountain dulcimer route, too. I read whatever else I could get my hands on at the time, and I looked at a lot of guitars. I sketched all kinds of ideas, and I started building tools (cam clamps, a mold, etc.) I made a lot of mistakes on my guitar, but finished with a playable and nice sounding instrument. Then I re-assembled a smashed up plywood archtop that a friend gave me. Made a new neck for it and did some modifications. More mistakes, but more fascination with the process. One thing just sort of led to another. Eventually, the Internet came along, and I found MIMF and a little later I found this forum. I'm fortunate, in that I learn pretty well through reading. The combined knowledge of our forum members is astonishing, and their generosity is wonderful. I will never quit learning. At my rate of production, I won't live long enough to build a large quantity of instruments. Hopefully, each will be a little better (in some way) than the previous one. I don't wish to do this for a living. For me, it'll remain a hobby. But maybe I'll sell an instrument to a friend from time to time.
For me, too, it'll be more of an art than a science, because I am more of an artist than a scientist. The whole point will be the process of designing, building, solving problems, and then doing it again.
Patrick

Six years ago I had virtually no woodworking experience but decided I had to build acoustic guitars because of my 30 years of playing and my desire to leave a lasting legacy to each of my sons. I read C&N and eventually discovered the internet forums. First it was the Martin Forum, then MIMF, 13th Fret and finally was invited to join OLF in its formative days. The forums have always provided the most value for me.

Along the way, I became a sponge and asked the dumbest questions of all time and always seemed to get intelligent and helpful answers...sometimes patiently and often times with less patience. In both cases, the information was often worth writing up in my notebook. There were scores of craftsmen who freely gave me advice but there were 3 who made a lasting impression by seemingly taking a personal interest if only to prevent me from injuring myself with unfamiliar sharp objects. I'll be forever grateful especially to those mentors for whom I have the greatest respect. They know who they are.

Everyone learns differently, but for me it was the idea of learning woodworking 101 first by using hand tools and studying the properties of wood. I am grateful because I tuned up my own planes and learned how to thickness tops, and even some backs and sides. I learned about wood properties by building necks and watching before my very eyes how wood can move if you don't choose it properly and rip it the proper way. All of this became most valuable when I finally decided to upgrade and begin purchasing power equipment. And while it is far more convenient, I still use the hand plane and scraper whenever possible to listen to what the wood is telling me. I learned which glues work best by testing on my own and making informed decisions before tackling new techniques. Because of my engineering background, I found the science and technical part of the building process to be easier and more comfortable than the artistic and less tangible aspects of guitar building.

I can never repay those who have helped the most...but in every case, they have told me to give forward to those who are entering the unfamiliar territory of guitar building. In addition to remaining immersed in the constant learning process by taking lessons from folks at all levels, I hope I can honor the tradition of giving forward to those who have the same insatiable desire to build guitars.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

My story is pretty similar to others. I remember reading Sloan's book from the college library and thought that would be a cool thing to do. In the late 80's I bought a shopsmith to do some home woodworking and the "New Yankee Workshop" came on the air and I started making my own furniture for fun. Around 1999, or so, I found the Cumpiano and Natelson book and read it from cover to cover and I was hooked. I discovered LMI and StewMac, ordered some wood and parts and began working from the book. I also scoured the web and found the MIMF. I couldn't have finished my first guitar without the MIMF which taught me to avoid the difficult approaches sometimes taken in C & N.

One of the names that kept popping up on the Web was Alan Carruth. I was at the New England Folk Festival in 2002 and there, sitting in his little booth was Al. I showed him my first guitar and we had a nice chat. He was very encouraging without having to purger himself by saying too many nice things about my guitar. I went to the ASIA conference in 2003 and ran into him there. I helped him run and experiment were players evaluated two guitars that differed by the bracing pattern but were otherwise identical. At that point I new that I liked this guys approach.

At that same ASIA conference, I met Steve Spodaryk and a few other builders from the New England area. I said that we should start a New England luthiers group and Steve said that he and Don Williams were already working on it and that he'd let me know. That fall I got a "spread the word" email from Steve about the first meeting. I forwarded it to Al and we had about 30 builders show up. We've had monthly meetings ever since. I've met some truly find builders there and played some wonderful instruments.

I discovered the OLF within a few months of it starting up and have checked in here almost every day since.

I've built about 1 instrument per year with varying degrees of success. One thing about building I never expected was that it would be such a major social activity. I can't imagine what the "Old Guard" had to go through back in the late 60's and early 70's with no books or anyone to talk to.

Howard, would'nt be this guy?

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some tunes on acoustic and guitar synth.
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheGeordieAdams
http://www.myspace.com/geordieadams

Hmm! Martin Luthier! Could there have been a spelling error in the history books?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Let's not forget Luthier Burbank. nyuk nyuk.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Actually, it is this guy:

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.