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I have a 1957 Gibson ES 335 that I have been asked to repair and I need some info on it.

The guy is a professional and has played this guitar regularly for about 45 years and has literally worn the finish off of the neck from the nut to around the 12th fret. It has holes in the finish and globs of finish which I have carefully buffed smooth, but it needs more attention. My first instinct is to do no harm to the guitar and I realize that any refinishing would lower the value of the guitar. This guitar is worn down to the wood in several places ( thumb marks) and what little finish is remaining is almost completely worn off of the neck.

In the days when this guitar was made, this is how they did the finish:

First was a coat of cherry red lacquer followed by a thick coat of some kind of thick silver/gray colored finish, then another coat of red lacquer, some green lacquer in sort of a sunburst, then several coats of clear lacquer. Wish some careful color matching, I can match the red and green colors, but I have no idea what this thick silver/gray stuff is.

My questions are:

1. would you send it back to Gibson for refinishing or do it yourself?
2. if you would attempt this yourself, what would you use for the silver/gray layer?
3. would it be better to leave it in the current condition where the worn finish is just buffed smooth?

I have no plans to do anything to the body of the guitar as it is in almost immaculate condition but the neck definitely needs some more attention. Any advice and info would be appreciated!

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

I'd be inclined to send it to Gibson.
Not that you aren't capable of the work, but I'd guess many collectors
would be more accepting of a factory finish restoration than one from an
independent luthier.

Just my 2 cents,

Jeff

What you are describing does not sound right for this vintage of red 335. I suspect you are misreading some of the strata, or that the neck had some prior refinish.

Either way, recommend you do nothing. Of course, there's always the little matter of what the owner wants.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

If it were my guitar, id leave it alone and LOVE the wear marks!
I have been playing the same Charvel model 4 since 1984! I would love nothing more than to have some PROOF! A nice fat bare spot where the lacquar was wore to the wood would do just fine!

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Ken I would leave it alone too.

There are a couple folks in the states that specialize in matching vintage colors according to David Collins. This tells me that this is a "specialty" that is not easy for we mere mortals to do well.

I also agree about the mojo, potential to devalue a very cool 335, and the matter of what the customer wants too.

If it were me and the customer insisted on a refinish job I would contact David Collins for the names of the folks who specialize in this and refer the customer to them. The price is likely to scare the heck out of the customer too..... Your first inclination to do no harm is right-on IMHO.

A guitar of this vintage with the original finish, no matter what the condition is, is worth a lot more to a collector or another player, if left untouched. If it is refinished, you will cut the value in half or more. Sending it to the factory would'nt change the fact that the finish is no longer original. The owner is a fool if he insists that this be refinished.

Cal

I don't believe that Gibson made the ES335 untill the spring of 1958, so it is unlikely to be a 57 model!

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Remember, there are no stupid questions, only stupid answers!

That may be possible. This player was a pro at the time it was made and it may have been given to him by Gibson prior to their release to the general public? I still have the guitar and if anybody is capable of confirming the manufacturing date I would appreciate it, just for my info. I looked a little closer today after showing it to someone else and they spotted a thin gold layer of finish on top of the thick silver/gray layer.

He swears that it is the original finish that is on it now and I appreciate the "second opinions" to confirm my thoughts to just leave it like it is. I think this is exactly what I am going to do!

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

They say a picture is worth a thousand words...

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

Oh my that is a pretty guitar Ken!

I see what you mean about the green shades on the neck.

Great pics - thanks for posting them!

I wouldn't touch it, and I don't mean that to you specifically, but myself as well.

Instruments like this (which hold great value in both utility for the player and value for the collector) often put the luthier facing conflicts between restoration and preservation. If the instrument is nearing the point of being too valuable to use regularly and to be resigned to a collection, pulled out only for special occasions, then I feel preservation and stewardship often trump utility. If it is a '57-'58 335, you could easily be in the 20-30k range even in rough shape - more if it's all original and the neck finish were the only damage.

If the owner still plays it regularly, and feels the comfort and playability outweighs the impact on value, that's their decision I suppose. If they did want serious finish work done I would really try to get them to carefully evaluate just how much the finish wear does impact their playing. If it doesn't effect the utility of the instrument, it's also important to decide whether keeping it as is would leave it prone to further degradation if used regularly. All can be tricky things to evaluate.

If they really feel they wanted to pursue finish repairs to the neck, I certainly would never consider sending it to the Gibson factory. They're a production factory, not a restoration artist. Years ago they would have just stripped it and refinished the whole thing. They've gotten a bit more sensitive to vintage instruments in recent years, but till should not be even considered to send something like this to.

There are a number of people who I would trust with this if the owner insisted on doing something with the finish, but the owner really needs to be educated on everything from value, necessity of the work, future of the instrument, and ramifications of doing or not doing anything. If they did decide to have some finish work done, it certainly would not be cheap either.

As Howard said, the finish layers you list sounds a bit odd. Still, Gibson did a lot of weird things, so if the owner insists, who knows. Don't to this work yourself though. I wouldn't do it myself if it came in to my shop - it's the kind of thing that deserves to be referred out to whoever can do it best, which is certainly not you or me. And keep it away from the buffing wheel - buffing finishes like this on a wheel can really destroy a patina, not to mention working waxes and compounds in to the wood.

I say leave it alone, make sure the owner knows what they have, and if they are insistent, I can probably list some appropriate people to contact about it.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Photos posted while I was typing -

Okay, don't touch it. You're certainly not going to make that look any better - trying to fade new finish with old on a metallic red is very, very, very near impossible. It's a beautiful guitar, in VG condition and needs no finish work.

Not sure about the year though - it has block inlays which didn't start until the early 60's. The finish also looks like either ember red or cardinal red, which were mid-60's custom colors as well. Some more shots would be helpful, but I'm guessing no earlier than a '63. Still even if it's an early 60's all original it could be valued in the 15k range.

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Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Thanks again for the replies! Looks like I finally made a good decision to just stop with a clean-up of the goo and then hand buffing it to a playable state

Thanks again!

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H

Yeah, hand rubbing with non-abrasive compounds is usually fine - it's the wheels (which smooth by generating pulling, heating, moving finish) that can destroy a patina.

Certainly a guitar I wouldn't mind having.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Sorry to bring this topic back up after such a long time, but the guy who it belongs to just contacted me and asked if I would help him sell it. His name is Roger Hawk and he was the lead guitar player for George Jones for around 15 years. The guitar plays like butter and considering that he played it in live performances for all of those years it is in excellent shape.

If any of you would like to own it or know of someone who would sell it on consignment, please let me know.

Thanks,
Ken

_________________
Reguards,

Ken H