Official Luthiers Forum!

I just got an offering from Target Coatings for their EmTech 6000 Acrylic Lacquer and am looking for feedback from anyone who has used it. They claim it's a substantial improvement over the USL product. I have no experience with acrylics and am most concerned with repairability and burn-in between coats. Any help is appreciated.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

This is a waterborne I am guessing since it is acrylic solids repair ability is not bad byt witness lines on any waterborne can be an issue at times. and if yo comare burn in to nito you will be disapointed I am pretty sure. but those are gust WB acryloc attributes in general as I have not tried EMTech 6000 Only UST and KTM9

Jimmy, I've just started using the EM6000. Now I've no former experience with the USL or any other WB lacquer so I thought you should know.

The product is pretty easy to work with. The flow out is excellent and if you set up your gun right, there is virtually no orange peal to worry about and level sanding will be a breeze. Spraying was pretty easy too if you have some experience already.

Here's a couple of pictures of what I've been working on. This is 9 coats sprayed 3 coats a day. No sanding in between any of the coats or from one day to the next, and 100% burn in. I have done nothing else, no sanding, nothing





Honestly it self levels so well, If I didn't have a few pores to drop fill, I could honestly just do a light level and go to the buffer.

Also, take a look over at the Target Coatings Forum, I've started a thread specifically on the EM6000 for guitar application here. Some great reply's and Tim Metcalf posted a couple pictures of his guitars as well as rough schedule.

Hope this helps a bit. I'll be posting more in a week or so when I buff it out. 100 hours to cure before level and buff is pretty nice

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Rod,

Thanks for the post. This is exactly what I'm looking for. I've done about 20 guitars with USL and have been generally happy with it, but this product looks even more promising. I use z-poxy as a pore filler with shellac as a sealer on the top. I read the thread you referenced on Target's site, but didn't see any mention of epoxy or shellac. What did you use?

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

My third was done with EM6000, although I brushed it on. There's pics in the electric page. I can't comment on spraying, but I can on leveling, polishing, etc. I don't see any of the blueish tint that most complain about with most water-based laquers. No tint what so ever actually. My white bindings look as white as before I finished it. It leveled pretty easily. I started with 400, then up to 1200 before going through the micro mesh grades, then polishing with Meguires, all done by hand. I think it came out great, as do my friends who have seen it. As for the slipperier feel Target claims, I can't compare it to USL, as I've never used it, but I really like the way this finish feels. I like it far better than the 2 Tru-oil necks I've done so far.

Here's a pic. The red spot is the reflection from the label on my little 9" Ryobi bandsaw. Sorry it's a little blurry

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Rob

Todd this looks promising.What did you use for a pore filler?
James

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Here's my schedule.

Two coats shellac sealer (I use the Zinsser's seal coat, right out of the can)
Two session's med visc CA as the pore filler. Applied with a razor blade, sand back to wood after the first session (1 hour to cure is fine). Apply the second coat of CA, cure, sand back to wood.

Spray two coats of shellac sealer again. Leave 2 days. light scuff sand and remove any obvious irregularities (drips or runs)

Than it's to the EM6000. Thinned 10% by volume with distilled water (actually I warmed the water too 100* for the first coat), 3 coats a day, 1 hour in between. No sanding.

The first couple of coats took a bit of tweaking of the gun (even after trying on scrape, practice boards) and I got some runs. The next day though, they scraped level just fine with a razor blade.

Then I sprayed on another 3 coats, then the same the next day.

Everything I've read on the Target forum says that it's cured out plenty good enough after 100 hours to level and buff. I'm going to give it 2 weeks. Which is miles ahead of nitro lacquer. Which is a good thing.

Remember (if you've not used WB lacquer before) that you still need to use an OSHA approved respirator for spraying. WB might not be as toxic as nitro, BUT you still don't want to inhale any of the fumes or mist when using any WB finish.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Rob, nice guitar!

And that's quite the claim as I've heard so many say that Tru-Oil is awesome for necks. I'm not saying your wrong at all. I'm just very impressed with the claim that the EM6000 is smoother feel versus the Tru-Oil.

Right On!

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

I'm switching to EmTech 6000 as well. I had been using USL. I have a gallon of the new stuff, but can't spray yet as my garage is just too cold. High of 11 degrees today! Brrrrrrrr....

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

And that's why a fully heated and humidity controlled shop rocks

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Hi Jimmy, I'm using it on my new model. A substantially simplified version of my ladder guitar. I'm using it in the satin form so no buffing and very little sanding. I filled the pores with epoxy, then sprayed on my burst using trans-tint in the finish, Then shot three double coats, gave it a day or so to settle out and sanded with 320. I got virtually no orange peel and a nice smooth satin finish. It does however still have a little bit of the blue cast to it if you get too dark with your burst, I will lighten mine on the next one. Then I shot another double coat and that was that. I love it but we'll see how clients accept the satin. I can build and finish one of these guitars in the time it takes a lacquered guitar to cure.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Curse you Rod True!!

John, how's the neck feel with the satin? I have thought of spraying the neck in satin even if the body is full gloss.

Ken

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http://www.casperguitar.com

Sorry Ken buddy

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

It's nice to see good reports on this...I just ordered a gallon of the emtech earlier today..!

I was spraying target's USL product earlier today. I like it a lot, I think it is a great solution for a home shop. Easy cleanup, no need for an explosion proof fan, etc. I am a tyro when it comes to finishing, but I have been very happy with the ease that I have been able to work with this stuff. I was really turned off by the idea of spraying nitro at home.

I am also currently using a typical finishing schedule using Z-poxy, sealer coats of shellac (if you don't do this, you will introduce a ton of moisture into the wood), topped off with USL.

Trev

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

The satin feels great, It's silky smooth and not the least bit sticky.

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Hmmm... sounds pretty good. I definitely like the idea of a waterborne finish. The site says at least 20 minutes between coats. That's fast! I'm curious about durability. I seem to remember that Charles Fox stopped using USL because it wasn't holding up very well. I used USL on one guitar a couple years ago, and it still looks pretty good. Aside from the hideous blue tint, that is! How does this compare, tint-wise? In my experience, the waterbornes get that blue only on darker woods.

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Mike

"The Dude abides. I don't know about you but I take comfort in that. It's good knowin' he's out there. The Dude. Takin' 'er easy for all us sinners. Shoosh." The Stranger

Hey Rod, that cutaway looks dang decent

Thanks to everyone, especially Rod & John, for the replies. I've ordered a gallon and will give it a shot on a couple I have on the bench now.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

Is it possible to neutralize the blue cast that some of these finishes have by adding an orange tint or something?

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

I'm curious about the smell. My workshop is connected to the house and lacquer has been banned from my shop.

Todd,

I've shoot probably 25-30 guitars with waterbournes (KTM-4, KTM-9, USL) and the only time I've ever had a bluish cast was when I tried to spray on too heavy of a coat. It was apparent right away and I simply let it dry and sanded that coat off and resumed my normal spray schedule. For those who have had that problem, you might try using thinner coats and more of them. It's not uncommon for me to spray as many as 16-18 coats over three days, but each coat is very thin and my finished film thickness in generally about .004". A very wise finisher once told me that you don't apply a finish, you build a finish. In my early days, I was impatient and was mainly interested in getting the job done so I could get the guitar finished. It took me awhile to learn the virtues of building a finish, one thin layer at a time. In the end , it has saved me time and improved my finish quality. I will say that my finishing experience is limited to waterbournes and nitro and this approach works for both of them. I have no idea is this method works for other types of finishes.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

Right on Jimmy. As you know, that gallon will go a long way. Keep us posted on your results please.




Joe, there isn't that strong chemical smell like you get from nitro at all. There is an after smell, it's not to bad and the off gassing isn't toxic like nitro (which is why I'm switching).

Take a look at my shop (link in my signature line) and look at my spray booth. Do something like this to contain the smell and you won't have any issues at all.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Rod, I like that spray booth, that solves two problems for me, I've got the exhaust fan that is leaking cold air into the space, so isolating it with a booth would solve that problem and the smell issue. So can you write a note to my wife?

Hey Folks!
Where are you getting this mysterious new product from. I want to try it.
Thanks

Yo Fool (real name would be cool)

here you go, http://www.targetcoatings.com/

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson