Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Wed Jul 23, 2025 2:55 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 2:40 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:06 pm
Posts: 169
Recently I picked up a set of fairly cheap but decent quality paring chisels. Prior to this I've only worked with regular bevel edge bench chisels which as you all know are quite shorter/smaller than their paring relatives. I'm having a very difficult time sharpening the paring chisels using my waterstones. Here's what happens:

When I sharpen chisels I try to keep my fingertips and my weight focused on the business end of the tool. These paring chisels are much longer than my other bench chisels so when I do that I find it very hard to push them across the stone! There's all this weight that is unsupported from at least the middle of the chisel down to the wood handle. That's a lot of weight just hanging there while I'm trying to push. Paring chisels can be big! I tried another technique which involved me putting as much pressure as I could on the tip of the chisel with my right hand while my left hand very lightly supported the weight on the heavy handle end. I got pretty good results from this I guess. I'm just wondering how some of the people around here slide their heavy tools across their stones, etc.... I'm keeping the stone nice and wet so it stays lubricated. It's strange because I've seen videos and books that say it's breaking a cardinal rule if you don't have your fingertips from both hands on the tip of the chisel at all times!!. But then I read Leanord Lee's book on sharpening and it clearly shows a picture of someone supporting the chisel handle with one hand, and holding down the tip end with the other hand, like I described earlier. These are Norton stones btw and there is no info regarding this in their small guide or on their DVD. Actually the guy on the DVD says to always use both hands on the tip, but he's demonstrating with small bench chisels!

What should I do? I'm pretty lost here. I want to stick to one system that gives results and doesn't do harm to the tool or the stones. And btw, how often should I flatten my stones? I have one of those coarse flattening stones with diagonal "canals" on the surface.
-John


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 3:18 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 22, 2007 10:59 pm
Posts: 2103
Location: Bucharest, Romania
Country: Romania
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
I normally sharpen with just one hand, for a chisel pushing with the index in the center, and with the thumb and index on the corners for wide plane irons, while the remaining 3 or 2 fingers support the tool from underneath it.
I don't under stand why you can't support the weight of the chisel with the ring and pinkies, regardless of how many hands you use?

_________________
Build log


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Jan 10, 2009 4:12 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:06 pm
Posts: 169
Alexandru, I'm sure I can support it with the ring and pinky finger. But if you read my post you can probably tell that I'm confused from seeing all the different methods. And some methods try to make it sound like they are set in stone. Just want to know the general technique for sharpening a long paring chisel on a waterstone.

In fact I did try to support it with my ring and pinky fingers and after about 40 minutes it felt like the steel was ready to cut into them. That's when I decided to try and lightly support the handle.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:15 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:16 am
Posts: 2692
No method that gives good results at this can be wrong because of where you put your hands.

One tip I got several years ago from a site that I think was talking about sharpening Japanese plane irons--but it works for chisels, too--is to rotate the blade about 45ยบ to the direction of your stroke. This puts a greater length of metal in line with the stroke and helps you to maintain an angle/ keep from rocking. Starting with a hollow grind and maintaining a bit of that hollow through the process also lets you feel more easily when the bevel is sitting flat on the stone.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 3:36 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 7:08 pm
Posts: 524
No one will pick on you for using a honing guide, unless they are mean.

About stones- they gradually develop a hollow in the middle, where most of the action is. You flatten it out when it gets to be "too much". If you flatten often, its not much of a hassle.

_________________
Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 4:12 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 25, 2005 6:16 am
Posts: 2692
jordan aceto wrote:
No one will pick on you for using a honing guide, unless they are mean.


Oh, absolutely. There is a flavor of machismo competition in many of the things you read about getting a great edge without a guide, like it's just not manly or something to use one. You don't have to be Sigmund Freud to figure out where "my tool is sharper than your tool" is coming from.

_________________
Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Jan 11, 2009 11:47 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2008 8:49 pm
Posts: 11
I've also found that having flat stones is a must. Once I got myself a flattening stone and cleaned up my water stones my sharpening improved to razor shape.
Dom


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 1:10 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:08 pm
Posts: 1958
Location: Missouri
First name: Patrick
Last Name: Hanna
State: Missouri
Country: USA
Hi, John. Lots of techniques will work, and you have received some good tips already. Try these methods and experiment with your own methods until you find out what works for you.
You'll get it. I probably don't need to say this to you, but I'll remind you anyway: Don't forget to flatten the back of your chisels first. You'll want a flat stone to do that. I haven't used water stones, but I've read that they wear pretty quickly. To me, that would imply frequent flattening.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 5:04 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:22 pm
Posts: 766
-


Last edited by TonyFrancis on Wed Dec 04, 2013 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 2:00 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:06 pm
Posts: 169
Thanks guys. Didn't mean to get anyone riled up about honing guides. After all, I'm only concerned right now with flattening the backs so I can't even use a honing guide for that. Wish I could though! I'm going to re-read all of the posts and try to go back to the stones with the new tips you guys gave me.

Todd, which Youtube video do you suggest I look at for the best visual representation? I saw a video, I believe by "Woodcraft" and here is a screen-capture of how the gentleman was holding the chisel while sharpening the back:
Attachment:
Chisel_on_Stone.jpg

-John


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jan 12, 2009 4:24 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2007 1:22 pm
Posts: 766
-


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com