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Rod...My reference to grain popping was identical to the effect that Hesh described. If you sand off the ZP and only leave it in the pores, you have negated the grain popping feature but still have an effective pore fill. Still it's possible to pop grain with shellac as well with other sealers later applied in the finishing process.

Good luck on your endeavor to produce that one guitar.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

Popping the grain is a term that refers to giving the grain "chatoyance" or a look of depth. Raising the grain is something different.

Back on to the original post, I have used oil based filler (McFaddens), Z-Poxy, and after seeing Robbie's tute, Drywall compound.

Oil based: If applied over a wash coat of vinyl sealer, will not muddy the grain. Muddies the wood if applied directly to bare wood. For me, it is difficult to use and messy. It took several tries to get a good fill, and it is like wiping owl crap around, even when diluted with naptha. My first gutiars were filled using it. Didn't like it, so I started looking for something else.

Z-poxy: For me, it works great on smaller pored woods, especially mahogany and sapele. More difficult on larger pored woods, especially Indian and Brazilian Rosewood. Some pores do not seem to want to fill, no matter how many times attempted. Dries much faster than the oil based, and it's a lot less messy.

Drywall compound dyed black: I have only used this once, and it was on a mahogany neck only, with no wash coat. Applies easily, flashes off fast. Sands wonderfully. It will muddy the wood if applied bare. I have not tried it over a washcoat as of yet. It does shrink back if sanded too soon, so it need to dry for at least a couple of hours before sanding, and may take 2-3 applications. As an aside, has anyone (Robbie!) had any adhesion issues with nitro/vinyl using this method?

I may try the water based microbead filler next, just out of curiosity. Currently I am leaning toward the drywall/dye method, based on my experience. I do sand back to the wood, leaving only the pores filled (FYI).

Hope this helps!

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Brad Tucker

Thanks Brad. That is what I was looking for. ...Sorry for all the discord... I like hearing everyones opinion, even if folks get a little off-topic. I've learned a tremendous amount by reading what people have to say - I also like the joking around and free expression. It keeps things interesting and fun...
Steve

does anyone have info on how to do the egg filler?
Walter

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Frank

There's a tutorial here.

Pore filling with egg

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Bob Connor
Geelong, Australia

Grain filling has been the bane of woodworking (finishing) for about as long as we butchers have been at it.

I think it's important to keep in mind 2 things when choosing any finishing system, as they are frequently not "mix-n-match" compatible.

First; what look are you after? Do you want to fill the grain with an opaque/colored material, or do you want the true natural appearance of the wood to show. They are two different looks-neither good nor bad- just different.

Most of the paste fillers already mentioned are of the first category (opaque). Of all of these the most user friendly and non toxic one I've found is the water based material that comes from LMI. I've used the dark rosewood color and it is a pleasure to use. There is some grain lifting, but you're going to sand anyway so it doesn't matter. It is expensive, but it goes a long way. I put it on with a "plasticator" that I get from the auto body paint store.

For the clear fillers the choices are somewhat more limited . As said, epoxy has become the darling, but if you are having alergic reactions to it then it's out. When I've used exoxy I'll put Cabosil ( http://www.eagerplastics.com/cab.htm) in it to give it some body, which reduces the # of coats necessary. I suppose you could try putting Cabosil into a different (less allergic) medium such as shellac or even a waterbased finish like ktm, but I have never tried it. Could be worth a shot.

The old school filling method was to shoot finish- and alot of it. You would spray a couple coats of sealer, scuff it to take off the fuzz and then shoot 6 or so more. Sand and repeat.

A very important thing to keep in mind when finishing is compatibility of all the components. I use Sherwin Williams products because they have a professional division nearby that stocks their full line of products. With the exception of Trans Tint for shading the topcoats (which has proven to be very reliable) I use the S-W dyes, stains, sealer, and lacquer. I even use their thinner to reduce. This way I'm sure there will be complete unity of all the materials. I rarely ever have fisheye or other problems that were common when I used to use different brands of materials.

-C

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