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Hey fellas. I'm starting my archtop project very soon and I'm wondering about the pros and cons of certain planes for the job. Right now the only convex sole pieces I have are a small-medium size Ibex (not really big enough to carve out a plate) and the "large" D'Angelico plane that LMI sells. I have some other planes but they're larger with flat soles (#4, #5....). I've heard some less than stellar things about the D'Angelico (unfortunately way after I made the purchase) so I'm just wondering if there's a better tool for the job? Plus, I think I am some kind of plane-aholic because I always find myself lusting after pictures of them on the net! But seriously, what do you think is the optimum plane for this job? Will the D'A do alright? How would a 100 1/2 work? I also know the large Ibex palm plane seems to have a pretty good reputation.

The plane I use for roughing out an archtop plate (top or back) is a structured carbide disc in a Milwaukee angle grinder. If I had to do this job without electricity, I would use some large outcannel gouges and a mallet.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

Hi Howard. The angle grinder would sure speed things up but I get a huge kick out of using hand tools. The gouges and mallet will be used when I rough out the underside of the top.

Nothing wrong with Ibex type thumbplanes when you get it roughed. Check this thread viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=18358

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Dave
Milton, ON

I am interested in this too - hope to have a crack at an archtop in about 12 months.

The Benedetto book (pg 15) refers to the palm plane available from Stewmac, after roughing out the main excess with wide chisel & mallet : http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Tools/Plane ... lanes.html

Frank

The traditional way to carve the outside of a plate (cello) is to use a 1 1/2 to 2 inch #7 sweep gouge with a long handle for leverage. Make as long as possible scoops, starting at the edge and go up, always across the grain. Good fun, try to use your legs more than your upper body strength. gouge http://www.diefenbacher.com/luthier2.htm and this beauty http://thejapanwoodworker.com/product.a ... 07.070.130

Like this only with a cello not violin http://www.gussetviolins.com/bwwork2.jpg

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Ken

Don't really know how comfortable I'll be with the gouges. For months now I've been studying the Benedetto book + videos and as a relative beginner would rather stick to his methods. At least this time. Later on in the construction he flips the plate over and drills holes of a certain depth all around the plate. Then he goes about chopping with a mallet and a gouge.

But what I really wanted to know is if the D'Angelico plane will be an adequate tool for this or would I be better of with another? Like an Ibex, 100 1/2, etc.....? Surely there are luthiers here that work their spruce with a convex sole plane?

I had one of the D'Angelico planes--the larger one, I think--and didn't like it. The mouth of the plane was huge, like a scrub plane's, and set very close to the front of the sole. I sold it. I guess some people like them. The big mouth may lend itself better to roughing out; I had intended it for finer work. If I had to use a plane to rough out an archtop, I'd probably prefer a Stanley 100-1/2 squirrel tail.

You would be better off with the smaller D'Angelico plane, which may have been part of my problem. Taking a deep cut for roughing, it's hard to push a one-hand plane that is bigger than 3/4" blade width.

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Howard Klepper
http://www.klepperguitars.com

When all else fails, clean the shop.

As a side note.... In one of the Big Red Books there is an article on James D'Q and they devote a couple of paragraphs to his three small violin maker's planes that were handed down to him from John D'Angelico. The plane at LMI is supposed to be based on those. Even more interesting.... there's a picture of a bronze casting John Monteleone had made from one of the originals. I love the look of those old planes D'Q used. They look very easy to work with, with a little wooden palm rest on the back. The reason why I didn't purchase the Ibex Palm Plane is because there is no type of rest for your palm. It would be hell using that tool for several hours I would imagine.

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This inexpensive "carver's spoon" works well for removing wood from the insides of the plates. It works on the pull stroke, of course.


After establishing the outside shape of the plate by aid of a "Safe-T"-planer, planes and a scraper, I use the drill press and a depth stop to drill a series of holes on the inside and hog most of the material between the holes away with the spoon.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

ok...as I said in the thread I mentioned....
"If you're so inclined, they can be made to suit and are really not that hard. (Actually, it's kind of hard to STOP making them once you get rolling!). These are a few I've made, for use first for a violin & now on archtops. For irons, I used chunks of an old files (9mm & 12mm wide). You can tooth a few blades, which really helps with figured wood.
The smallest below can be covered by the end of your pinky... the biggest is a roundbottom I made for windsor chair seats."[attachment=0]thumbplanes.jpg[/attachment]
Leave a blade extra long & you can easily make a palmguard .....the one shown is an old squash ball.

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Dave
Milton, ON

I agree with Dave's premise that planes are fairly to make--and it becomes sort of an addictive sideline in the shop. I've made several, but here are the two I used on my archtop.
The brass one is a little easier to adjust because of the clamping knob in the cap iron. Both work very well, though. Before I make another archtop, I will make a smaller, narrower plane to get into tighter curves near the waist. I encourage you to make a few of your own. All you really need is some scrap hardwood (my all-wood plane is cherry) and some scrap blade material. Old files will work well, but I had access to industrial hack saw blades, so that's what I used.

Patrick Hanna

...nothing to contribute, other than to say that the things people do/make/know on this forum just constantly amaze me. These home made planes are just another case of this....

I am coming in kind of late on this one. I use the large d'angelico plane for roughing out plates, and i really like it. As howard said, it is like a little scrub plane and the mouth is way up in front, and lots of people seem to not like them for those reasons. I do like it, and for quick rough work that combo works just fine for me, so if you have not sold it or thrown it off a bridge, give it a try.

It is usefull thusly- Initial shaping is done with a gouge, for someone uncomfortable with a gouge, the d'angelico plane makes a good substitute. You can take a mondo bite with it, and worked across the grain, especially in flamed maple there is not too much tearout.

Work quickly down to the edge thickness first thing, the flat around the edge can then be finished off with a safety planer, like benedetto shows. The rest of the archings can then be blended in to the established edge, the d'angelico plane is most usefull here.

Once you start getting in the ballpark, a violin makers trick is to switch to a FLAT plane, like a stanley 100(for big archtop guitars, smaller planes for mandos and violins) to refine the arch. It sounds weird, but the thing is, you want a nice smooth arch, not one with a billion little plane tracks in it. The flat plane also lets you see the arch a little more clearly without being obscured by all those little tracks. At this stage if i feel the arch is still grossly too puffy, i switch back to the gouge and d'angelico plane. You will be able to get almost all of the surface nice with a flat plane that size, you can then finish up the waist area with your little ibex planes. Then on to scrapers.

The d'angelico is great for hollowing out the inside also, worked across the grain most of the time. Long scoops from one side to the other make it go fast.

So there is at least one recommendation for the d'angelico plane, just so anyone who has already bought one does'nt feel ripped off. It does always give me a blister on one finger, but it also gives me huge muscles after doing a couple of plates!

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Jordan Aceto
Ithaca, NY

I'd have the angle grinder on hand just in case! Even with the angle grinder you still need traditional tools to refine plates.

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Matt Jacobs

"Don't tase me bro"

I've really want to try a 100 1/2. I think it may work ok...but to be honest, once you get past the rough shape... the smaller planes just work better. If you look in the thread Dave posted, you will see what I have been using. Its a set from Harbor Frieght. I paid about $10 for a set of three. I really only use one of them...the normal plane. I took it on a sander and rounded the sole in both directions. I bought a second set and made a second one with slightly less curve in both directions. I can remove wood very fact with those. Sometimes faster than the large scrub plane also in that picture. I own about 30 planes now...but those two still get the most use.

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Joe

Here is another shot..of them with a mahogany back

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Joe