Official Luthiers Forum!

In searching thru back threads I came across a post where John How mentioned that he uses Clearwater Gel Stain to color his tops to get a rubbed, "vintage" look on his guitars. I have searched and the Clearwater stains seem to be discontinued, does anyone have a source or an alternative product? These were available in colors as well as wood tones, and the water base and gel format are supposed to help achieve manipulate the colors and tones to get the look you want.

I love John How's vintage finishes. Does anyone have a link to where he goes into more detail on his finishing process?

Thanks,
Joe

Hang in there, Joe, surely someone knows something!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Joe,
I love John How's guitars too. I went thru a lot of old posts and took some notes, but they aren't complete. I think John was trying different combinations of products as time passed.

Clearwater Color's website is way out of date.
http://www.clearwatercolor.com

Clearwater Color Company, Inc.
333 Mamaroneck Ave.
Suite #485
White Plains, NY 10605
Phone: 914-939-3338
Fax: 914-939-2075

My notes are attached.

Hopefully, John will jump in here with an update.

Edit - it says it's attached while I'm uploading and editing, but I dont see it. ???
Oh, .doc and .txt are not allowed.

GregH

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GregH
Fot Wuth

Okay, doing this the hard way -

"I just tried this stuff (Stewmac Waterbase Pore Filler) for the first time but here is what I did and it seems to be working. The reason I wanted to try this is that part of my finishing process is staining the wood for an aged look, so I need to fill before staining and it needs to be water based because the stain I use is water based and compatable.

After smooth sanding apply the filler with a brush. Let it stand for about 5 minutes (if you go much more than that it'll start to congeal) and then scrap off everything you can. The trick is getting the time right because you want it to stay in the pores abd the longer you leave it on the better it stays in the pores. It really does sand well though when dry so it's no big deal if you leave too much on. It dries much faster than epoxy too, about 2 to 3 hours till you can sand it.

Sand it back to bare wood trying not to remove much wood or you'll have to refill. Two applications should be enough to start finishing. With this stuff I can fill the guitar and then do my staining and off to finish spraying.

I've been using Behlen's water based pore filler lately. I spritz the surface I'm filling with water and then rub the filler in as thin as possible with a paper towel. After it dries I sand it to bare wood and I have been having pretty good results with just a single fill. The advantage to this filler is that you can stain the wood after you fill it which is a big part of my vintage style finish process.

James, the finish is Behlins Rockhard varnish and it's naturally a little amber

You can do it any of those ways. I personally like to add the color right on the wood but you may get mixed result, which I like as when I'm adding color it's usually for a vintage kinda look and I like the sort of mottled faded look I get. Others add color to the finish. I don't think I'd try adding it to the filler as you will be sanding that and it's kinda hard to keep that consistent. I use waterbased stains, specifically gel stains that seem to me to be more consistent and don't raise the grain so much. I also raise the grain and sand a couple times before I stain so that doesn't happen while I'm staining.
After the color is on I use shellac as a sealer if I finish with varnish or vinyl sealer if I'm gonna use lacquer, sanding very little so as not to disturb the color until I have a sufficient build.

I use these "Clearwater" gel stains available from Highland Hardware They are really great for staining directly on the wood as they don't soak in like thinner stains especially for end grain.

Will the gel stains affect the shimmer and reflective quality of the wood as specified previously in this thread?

This effect was achieved using these gel stains so it can have quite a drastic effect by piling a lot on but used in the normal way of just wiping on the color you want won't cover anything up. When I use this, I am interested in creating a vintage worn in look so I apply several layers of different colors and then rub them considerably with fine steel wool smetimes followed by more applications of color. Basically it's all just an experiment and that is what you will also need to do to get the results your looking for. As for this stuff soaking in and affecting the sound, Naw I don't believe it.

I've been using Behlen's Rockhard for the last year or so and I like it as a finish on the guitar but it is somewhat of a pain to get it on. As Steve said you need a fairly dust free environment as it takes a couple hours to dry dust free. And it does produce witness lines if you sand thru coats. Adding a capfull of Acetone will help it burn in and reduces frustration with witness lines.
It sands very easy and quickly so one must exersize restraint when sanding as it is easy to sand thru. Likewise while buffing use low pressure and let the well loaded wheel do the work and stay off the edges with the wheel doing them by hand during the cleanup. Sand well and fine before the final coat to ease leveling of the final coat.
I really like the way this finish looks on the guitar. It is not a clear finsh as it has an amber tint but it looks so warm that it is a pleasure to see"

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GregH
Fot Wuth

My aged/stained finish that has been my most popular look, was indeed created using Clearwater gel stains, however it seems true that the Clearwater company has gone away and I have not found them available anywhere, even the sources already mentioned.
Currently I am using the liquid dyes available at Stewmac or Woodcraft. These seem to be compatible with just about anything under the sun, including water, alcohol, lacquer, oil varnish, etc.
None of these medium show the ease of application that clearwater did though so best of luck. I am looking for some kind of gel base in which I can add them but I haven't found it yet. I still have a little of the Clearwater clear extender that I'm using currently. I have found some kind of waterbased stain extender at Woodcraft (can't remember the name) and I have added the color to this but it doesn't seem to apply quite as consistently as the CW.
Still searching......

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Tickle your guitar daily, and it'll tickle you back.

Thanks Waddy, you were right.

Thanks Greg, for taking the time to search thru the material you have gathered and re-posting it here! How's your build going?

And thank you John, for letting me know where your finishing procedures stand now. Again, I love your guitars and the vintage finish you give them. Maybe someday one will cross my path and I can play one, and check it out in person. It's a real ich when you work out a finishing technique, and then the products disappear!

Good luck on the search, and I'll watch for updates!

Thanks again to all for the help,
Joe