Official Luthiers Forum!

Being in the cabinet trade I used a lot of poplar for drawer boxes and subfaces etc.. I have a lot of nice straight stock to quarter saw from and have used it on two instruments for bracing, moderatley light weight and very strong, easy to work and resists warping and curling. I find the white wood is stronger than the green streaked and it is one of the cheapest woods available.
Just wondering if any one else has used it, and would care to comment.

_________________
Nehemiah Covey
www.coveysacoustics.com

This was discussed back in April. Most builders believe that poplar, being denser (heavier) than the usual brace species, would be a poor choice. The usual argument for spruce or braces is the high strength/weight ratio.

If you have already tried it, I am curious about how your instruments sound.

Poplar out weighs Spruce by near ½ a pound per board foot and Spruce is easer to carve and I suspect has a greater long grain strength to weight ratio

That's an interesting point, which is why I asked. (strength/weight)
I have two guitars I built, same size, but the poplar braced one actually sounds crisper, more sustain and has a little better projection. Weight difference is not anything to even mention, as with the poplar I was able to take the bracing down a little lighter and thinner. I have a poplar braced 12 string out in NY in the hands of a really good player and he can't seem to say enough about the acoustic (unplugged) tone of it.
As for strength to weight ratio, with the given size of bracing in general, you're talking about a percentage of an ounce in extra weight.
If you have a project guitar or top laying around, try it for yourself and see what you think. I try a lot of different things not taught in schools, seems to be working out and shedding new light on some things.
But that's just my personal opinion anyway. I still use spruce , cedar and mahogany most of the time.

_________________
Nehemiah Covey
www.coveysacoustics.com

I'm gonna try it!

_________________
There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

I have some decent poplar left over from the crib I made my daughter. I can see myself at least potentially using it for the back braces on the one I am getting ready to start.

_________________
Gravity, its not just a good idea.....its the LAW! (the poster formerly known as Sparticus)

Even though people tried to steer me away from it, I used poplar bracings on my first guitar (archtop with single X bracing). The guitar is very light and when strung up in the white was quite pleasing to the ear. Its still about 2-3 weeks away from being polished out, so only time will tell.

Joe

_________________
Joe

I don't see why you could not use it but I don't understand why anyone would really want to. What are you looking to accomplish, perhaps I am not understanding the question?

I just picked up some beautifully quartered Adi brace billets (that I forgot to pay for........ ) from Uncle Bob at RC Tonewoods and they were priced at $8.00 each. Small price to pay for the benefits of Adi.

So much time and effort goes into building a guitar that unless you have a specific goal in mind from using poplar, besides using up what you have, why not use spruce for the top bracing?

Hmmmmm.....Hesh has a point.

Let me ask this....how many board feet are in a billet of spruce (at $8 dollars a billet)?

I only ask because I can get poplar here for about 3.00 per bd/ft. I do think it can be said that 1 bd/ft of poplar does not yield the same as 1 bd/ft of spruce in billet form.

Without all the details here's the square of it. It costs less...and for a new builder such as myself... pennies count.

Here's the other side. Given the history of spruce used in this manner...I would much rather use it over the poplar.

Can I just continue to argue with myself on this?...

_________________
There is no difference between the man that thinks he can....and the man that thinks he cannot.

Good point .. no real reason to use it , but I did some testing on spruce, cedar , mahogany and poplar in same size comparisons and found that poplar is just a little bit springier than the others. But took more to break it. The weight in this size piece is comparitively negligible. And I have quite a bit of it and don't plan to build any more cabinets. The two guitars I have it in sound very good and unless you someone told you it was poplar, you wouldn't know it. On the stock I have the grain is very tight and straight, more so than most of the spruce I get, so I'll just substitute it when I feel a need.

_________________
Nehemiah Covey
www.coveysacoustics.com

Uh, spruce smells better than poplar.

Mike

if you are looking for good brace wood substitutes you should be looking at other soft woods really löke hemlock (which makes awsome top BTW)
you could also try laminating bracing (spruce/mahog/spruce or something) if you want to take the mass down but increase the stiffness.

I think hardwoods fine for back braces (i love mahogany and cedrella) but you think very carfully about how any hardwood will effect the top and the sound you are trying to acomplish.

Joel.

I think if I had an unlimited supply of money, I would buy spruce material for bracing and even pay extra for the shipping. Nothing but the best!

For me, until I am getting paid large sums of money to build a no-holes-barr instrument, I need to continue to look for cost affective local alternatives. The only way I can continue to build is by keeping the cost down as much as possible. Maybe when the economy picks up again and day work is more plentiful, I will start to splurge on the finer woods in life.

_________________
Joe

Depending on where you live, you might be able to find spruce studs at a local lumber yard. If you can pick through the stack, you should find a quarter sawn, straight grain piece that could keep you in brace stock for a lot of guitars. It is not possible to find much cheaper brace wood than that. Another possibility is the spruce grab bag from Aircraft Spruce. You get a lot of stock for a few bucks. I see no economic justification for not using spruce bracing.

I say if it sounds good,use it!I know of more than one electric maker that uses it for bodies,so it must be a good tonewood.I have a Jackson randy rhoads flying v that has a poplar body and sounds great.I'm going to use ash for braces in some of my guitars as it is a great tonewood also.Some of the most highly prized fender strats were made with ash bodies.I know the flutes i have made out of it are hard to beat for projection and clear tone.

ncovey, are you still around? I am curious how much thinner you made them than 1/4".

_________________
"...you have to get over your strict adherence to your largely imagined notion of absolute perfection..."

In one of Don Teeter,s two books on guitar repair he mentions using a certain kind of pine in a guitar he built for himself. Can,t remember what it was and don,t have the books here to refer to.May be worth while exploring.For my money it,s hard to beat the strength / weight ratio of spruce especially if you do a bit of testing to pick out the stiffest.Also spruce has a certain toughness to it that is an asset.Just my 2 Canadian cents worth.

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!