Official Luthiers Forum!

Guys,

Just got an e mail on this about illegal madagascar rosewood....
anyone know someone there for an inside scoop...

Paul

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Paul Bordeaux
http://www.bordeauxinlay.com

heard the Peavy is looking into buying out Gibson . Did anyone else hear about this ?-

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

There are several articles around the web about it. Seems no charges have been filed, but there is an investigation going on, following a raid at Gibson, when Feds seized computers, wood, and guitars. The CEO of Gibson is on the board of an environmental group and he's offered to step down to avoid conflict of interest.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

...unless they decide to torch all that Mad Rose...

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The member formerly known as erikbojerik....

Conflict of interest...
Where else would a CEO sit if he wanted to "import" a little RW from Germany?

I wonder if any of the other big makers are sweating a bit at this point.

Interesting week in history-Portland opens first bud bar, Feds raid guitar plant .

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

It will be interesting to hear gibsons side of the story. I wonder if the will go with the old "I've never seen that before in my life. I dont know where it came from."

Yep, though not a whole lot more than that. Maybe they'll restructure it to include a QC department?

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Bob Garrish
Former Canonized Purveyor of Fine CNC Luthier Services

There is (or was) illegal wood in that plant. Has to be. Investigators had to provided significant evidence to get the raid approved. The question is, is the wood locatable (does legitimate paperwork exist)

Glad LP not around to see this.

Are they really using that much Mad. RW? I didn't think there was that great of a supply of the stuff for a factory to have enough to get into trouble.

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http://www.PeakeGuitars.com

I heard Peavey burns Brazilian rosewood to power their generators just to run their CNC machines

Try $50-$75K if it were to be contested. Any decent lawyer (oxymoron?) nowadays charges >$200/hr, You will get a bill for $150 if you email them a "yes or no" question. We are talking forensics and expert wittneses as well. You would be looking at 2-3 years before it came before a jury.
Doubt they will come after the little guy. though. At least in medicine, if you try to import a prescription drug (in non-saleable quantities), all they do is confisgate it and send you a letter. Patients have shown me these - they say what to do if you contest it, and if not you stuff is gone....

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

It appears that perhaps Martin is:

http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... uilds.html

-jd

It seems all the rules and regs just make things worse and for sure more expensive.I agree with Todd about the gov.
James

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

From what I have read this is not a CITES issue but rather an issue with the Lacey Act, which is more about the paper trail. Here is a link to a 2 page article where SCGCs R.H. is quoted.

http://www.tennessean.com/article/20091 ... ed+by+feds

Looking for illegal wood, but not ILLEGAL LABOR, in a 15% unemployment + recession? Get on the phone to your congressman!

Ive heard that deforestation is slowing because of the bad economy, so there is at least some releif on the Amazon, and I suppose elsewhere. OF course, if China gets that hippie/acoustic guitar bug, all will be lost 5x as fast.

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Here is what a Parlor Guitar is for!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oEa8PkjO6_I

I understand from the UMGF that Martin has about 14000 sets of Madagascar RW and has since stopped taking orders for guitars using Madagascar.Hope they get this straighten out for Gibson's sake and also for the rest of us or we may all end up building maple and oak guitars. Not that maple and oak are not ok but we have been spoiled by all the beautiful wood that is available especially through some of the venders here at the OLF. Lets hope.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I had an interesting talk with Gulab Gidwani, owner of Exotic Woods, after his ASIA talk this spring. He was actually in Madagascar at the time of the most recent governmental coup. He basically said the place was virtually lawless and anyone who had the resources to cut and export logs could freely do so.
He also said that EIRW is being responsibly harvested under careful control of the Indian government, and is in no danger of going the way BRW did.
That's what he said......

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It's not the miles ahead, it's the stone in your shoe


In Markham,Virginia

As Todd says, this is a complicated issue that inevitably gets mixed up with politics. Jon Nixon said a mouthful, though, when he pointed out the issue of 'lawlessness' in Madagascar. The real underlying issue is a 'tragedy of the commons'. Where there is no effective control over the resource, and there are poor people who need to eat, what would you expect to see? The people doing the cutting most likely realize that they're depleting the forest, but what's that when your kids are hungry? It might be different if the choice came down to whether you cut the tree or it stayed there: then you might look for some other work. But when you know it's going to get cut anyway, why shouldn't it be you who gets to eat, rather than somebody else? The poeple on the ground know that they are making bad choices, but they're the only possible choices in many cases.