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I have a feeling I'm a moron. It's okay, you learn by making mistakes -- and boy, am I learning.

Here's the deal. I recently acquired a '67 Tele. I'm now leaning away from restoration and planning on keeping it -- or maybe eventually reselling it -- in the "as is" condition I received it. I had a specific question about cleaning the fretboard.

I hope I didn't blow it, but I think I did. I'll take my medicine. I usually work on acoustics (which have dark ebony or rosewood fingerboards) so I was doing the same thing on the Tele fretboard -- cleaning it with very very light steel wool and a gentle cleaning solution. About three frets in I noticed I was removing the vintage finish along with the direct -- so I immediately I stopped.

I thought, mistakenly, that the guitar would be more attractive to a potential buyer if I removed all the dark blotches from the fretboard, but it now appears I also removed the finish(!) at the same time. (Most vintage acoustics I've worked on had unfinished fretboards.) In doing this, I appear to have taken away a great deal of the mojo from the instrument.

I appreciate your honesty and insight on this issue. You can suggest whipping me with a cat-of-ninetails or with a stupid stick if you want -- I probably deserve it.

What are my options at this point?

Notice the pics below and where I stopped cleaning after the third fret. Thank you for your comments.





http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c227/ ... 482c60.jpg

Hi Scott - I sure hope that you are not being too hard on yourself. We all do stuff like this at one point or another and from the looks of it I think that you are going to be fine, your Tele too!

First to clean these maple, lacquered boards as you have discovered steel wool and perhaps detergent as well are too aggressive. Naphtha on a paper towel works well and is fairly benign in that it won't hurt the lacquer.

From the looks of the Tele it's interesting how profound the finger divots are but the level of fret wear seems to be less than one would expect. Perhaps this one has been refretted at some point as well. Any information that you know of regarding if it's been refretted already?

If it has the finish was either carefully preserved by whom ever refretted it or it has already perhaps been refinished back in the day.

Anyway my suggestion is to clean the rest of the board and frets with Naphtha only. It's likely that when the rest of the board is cleaned up it will be far more uniform looking. If any of the other finger divots are exposing bare wood too and through the finish it will even out the look of the first cleaning.

Also has the body been refinished? It looks suspect to me too in that IIRC Telecasters in that era were solid colors no?

So please relax and stop beating yourself up. It's a cool ax and I don't see anything here that takes any of that coolness away. It's also a tool for musicians and we have to remember that meaning that keeping it functional has great value as well and not simply relegating it to a valuable wall hanging dirt and all.

I'd also recommend posting your questions on FRETS.com as well. Some of our friends over there have way more experience with vintage Telecasters than most here or I will.

PS: What's the other one in the trunk, anything interesting?

My two cents: NEVER use steel wool on an electric. The pickup magnets attract it too much. Use Scotchbrite if you must.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

We use OOOO steel wool on electrics without of course maple, lacquered boards every day. Before we do though the pups are taped off with 2" masking tape to prevent any issues from steel wool and magnetic pups. After cleaning the frets and board with steel wool we vacuum the guitar (and bench...) removing the steel wool particles. It works well and the OOOO steel wool does an excellent job in shining up frets, removing corrosion, and cuts though finger jam.... (yuck.... ) quite well.

You're right that steel wool can be a problem if you don't work in a manner that prevents it from being a problem.

Hesh, thanks for your supportive and informative response. I’m fine now; it’s just that the misjudgment was fresh and so I overreacted. I’ll go forward from here and just fix the problem.

Is Naptha the same as Denatured Alcohol or Mehtylated Alcohol? Someone had recommended that to me for cleaning an acoustic fretboard, but I thought it might be too harsh for the maple neck so had not used it.

Hesh, re the divots, it’s actually an optical illusion. The fretboard is perfectly flat, with no divots whatsoever. That’s simply the discoloration of the smudges from the body oils of previous players. I bought this Tele from a guy who had it sitting on a guitar stand in the corner of his living room, unplayed, for 35 years (!), so those oils probably picked up all sorts dirt floating through the air too. No divots, which I think is great news, and yes, fret wear is moderate and needs no work. They appear for certain to be the original factory frets. I’m taking it to an expert Fender luthier on Monday and will know more then.

I’m gonna just hold off completely doing anything else to the guitar at all, including clean the rest of the neck, till I meet with my luthier. We’ll proceed from there.

Oh, and the body has never been refinished; it was just stripped. It appears to have been the standard factory blonde color.

I’m familiar with Frets.com and am a member there as well. I may post there; let’s see what my luthier says first.

Yes, you have perceptive eyes, there is indeed another keeper in the trunk. I had posted a separate thread on it here, but the photo links are broken so I'll post a few more below along with a link to a Photobucket album. I bought the Tele in a package with an even rarer bird: an early Sixties Gibson Tal Farlow Jazz Archtop guitar. It's an embarrassment of riches that I will probably never encounter again. Anyway, I'm not bragging about it but kinda humbled by the whole experience. The Farlow had a cracked neck and is with a different (Gibson electric specialist) luthier right now seeing if he can fix it. He said it's a difficult one to fix. Here's the Photobucket link to the full album:

http://s28.photobucket.com/user/educatedguess417/library/Gibson%20Tal%20Farlow%20Archtop%20Guitar?sort=3&page=1

Thanks again for your thoughtfulness, Hesh. I've stopped beating on myself. All the most important lessons I've learned in my life were through mistakes, so file this one in that same drawer. It'll work out fine, I'm sure.

Hi ya Scott - So that was you who posted the pics of your Tal Farlow Jazz Archtop guitar on FRETS. I've been drooling over that thing for about a week now - very, very cool guitar and what a great score too!

Regarding naptha I don't know if it's the same as DA or MA and suspect not but again I don't know and maybe someone else here can help with this question. I do know that Naphtha works very well and will not harm lacquer and I use it every day in my work.

Got-it too about the optical illusion and that also explains the very little fret wear as well. When you take it to the Fender expert ask him how the frets were originally installed, kind of interesting to learn and know.

So the body was stripped that makes sense too. Unfortunately stripping or refinishing these iconic old guitars does negatively impact their value to some degree but it's still very much a valuable instrument and rather coveted as well IMO. I'm also a fan of keeping guitars playing as opposed to relegating them to a collection and your Tele looks like a killer player to me regardless of it's high value.

Most of all glad to hear that you stopped beating yourself up my friend. Some of this Lutherie stuff can get pretty complicated but we all need to remember or at least I do at times that we are here to have fun AND learn. So no beating yourself up allowed besides it might interfere with you making your next and maybe even greater score - nice going again and nice to meet you too if only on-line.

Lastly after the find(s) that you recently made have you considered buying a lottery ticket?

I use a magnet wrapped in a paper towel to remove the steel wool fragments. Never, never use a magnet anywhere near a pickup, never!

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Actually if anything you added to the Mojo. S#%t happens


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Naphtha does not have alcohol in it. Alcohol can damage lacquer so definitely do not use it. Naphtha is identical to lighter fluid.

I think you are fine. I would not lose any sleep over it.

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EddieLee

Yes, Hesh, that was me with the Tal Farlow over on Frets.com, but then I think I messed it up and the pics are just a broken link. It appears to be a very early Sixties model -- they made less than 100 between 1961-1963.

Thanks for all the advice and support regarding the Tele. I'm just gonna hold off doing else to it till I see my luthier either Monday or Wednesday.

I have not even been in the vintage business a year, and in that time I've scored the following instruments: 1969 Brazilian Martin D-35 (sold); 1969 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe Goldtop (sold), various small garage sales finds, and now this blockbuster deal that fell into my lap through Craigslist.

I feel almost stupidly blessed with this embarrassment of riches. I'm going to do right by these instruments to find them good homes.

A lottery ticket? Yeah, and I might want to drive to Vegas and put everything on black.

Thanks, Hesh. Please meeting you too. I'm I love with guitars, and this is a great part-time business for me.

Lonnie, thanks, we shall see. Take care!

Barry, thanks, still educating myself about Naptha.

Yes, naphtha is used as lighter fluid, also as the fuel for Coleman camping stoves. Actually a pretty common solvent/cleaner, and really useful for builders and repair folk, as it flashes off quickly, is harmless to most if not all finishes, and leaves virtually no residue. Unfortunately, it sells under a huge variety of names used inconsistently in different countries. In the US, you should find the Klean-strip brand readily available at a reasonable price http://t.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-1- ... /100122813

One of my favorite uses for naphtha in the repair world is to put some in an eye dropper and when a guitar has a suspected crack, suspected to be through the wood and not just a finish crack, dropping a bit of naphtha along the crack from the outside and then looking on the inside of the box for the wet spot.... you can tell if the crack is all the way though. Not wet inside the box and the crack is not in the wood. It's wicking action is the quality that makes this possible.

And when you are done doing that you can use it to start the grill and make barbecued spare ribs too....

Those are two sweet guitars there. The Gibson neck can easily be repaired. I'd be tempted to just leave the Tele as it is. I once started into cleaning a vintage parlor guitar and watched as the finish melted away! I had no idea the cleaner I was using had alcohol in it and alcohol and shellac are enemies. Fortunately the finish was shellac which is easy to repair. Lacquer has some redeeming repair qualities to it as well. You could probably spray a light coat on that area and make it look old. But more often then not when you start down that rabbit hole it just gets worse.

Get the tele playing good then play the snot out of it for a few years - fretboard will be all evened out again

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Little tidbits like this are one of the things that make this forum so amazing. I happen to need this exact piece of info right now. As a mediocre guitar player and aspiring luthier (gearing up for my first build next summer) this place is a treasure trove.

Thank you to Hesh and all of the rest of you who contribute your knowledge here!!!

The Gibson Tal Farlow will most likely be coming back to me in a few days with a repaired neck. I wanted to ask: If I want to make the finish on this guitar shine for photographs, what might I put on it, if anything? After my experience with the Telecaster, I wanted to get advice on this before doing anything at all. A buddy of mine told me that an old finish like this could potentially flake off in places, reducing the value of the instrument. I know that some people use either mineral oil or linseed oil, and apply it very lightly.

Should I just leave it alone and not touch the finish? Is there anything I could use that would be very gentle and safe in this instance?

I'm embedding a few photos below. Please feel free to take a close at the finish and share your opinion. I appreciate it.

Thanks,
Scott

Hi ya Scott: I would start with just some spritzed distilled water and very soft rags to get some of the surface dirt off.

After that you can safely use Meguiar's number 2 "fine-cut cleaner" and/or Meguiar's number 9 "Swirl remover." The swirl remover will take a bit longer being less agressive and if you are OK with this it's all you need. Again use uber soft rags so as not to scratch anything.

Both Meguiar's products are widely available at auto-parts stores.

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Hesh, thanks, I like the idea of a spray product for starters. I'll start there with just the distilled water, since the guitar IS dusty. I'm also quite familiar with Meguiar's and all of their products are excellent.

Somebody had mentioned a StewMac product also, called Preservation Polish:

http://www.stewmac.com/Materials_and_Su ... olish.html

Just curious if you've used it.

Thanks Again, Hesh,
Scott

Stew-Mac's Preservation Polish is good if you have some. I've been using it on and off for about 10 years now and it works pretty ok but I'm not thrilled with it.

It's gentle and silicon free which is the primary goal for the product so they hit it on the mark. But IME it can leave a bit of a film behind that requires more attention to get it all off. I think it's fine for delicate finishes but also think that it's not much of a cleaner if cleaning is needed too.

Some more tips for you if you don't mind. Since this one has magnetic pick-ups keep this in mind with the following. OOOO steel wool is excellent for cleaning gunk and finger jam.... off the fret board but with electrics care should be taken to protect the magnetic pick-ups. So I use 2" masking tape and tape over and around the pups before using steel wool. Once the pups are protected you can tackle the frets and board with the steel wool. It's also a good idea to detack the masking tape because of the age of this finish. Detacking is nothing more than sticking the tape to your shirt or pants several times prior to lightly pressing it on the instrument. Masking tape should never be left on a guitar finish in that it can eat finish at times. But it's OK to use for a some hours or so.

Work the steel wool in the same direction as the frets point getting right up next to them. Finish up with vigorous strokes in-line with the neck to remove any of the very fine OOOO steel wool scratches left behind. The frets should shine like a 57 Chevy!

When finished with the steel wool and before removing the tape vac the steel wool particles up from the tape over the pups, the entire guitar and bench so that no contamination happens.

WIth a vintage, valuable instrument such as this one careful cleaning is fine. Refinishing can reduce it's value by up to half and should be avoided. If the instrument is playable as is great and you might consider doing nothing more than some cleaning, new strings, etc. The pots can be cleaned as well as the switch, input jack, etc. But avoid any changes, replacing anything, or mods. It's likely that a potential buyer for this one might prefer to get it as unadulterated as possible.

Hope this helps.

My approach on this instrument from here on in is like the Hippocratic Oath: "Do no harm." That means changing nothing -- absolutely nothing, and certainly no refinishing -- unless directly connected to its function as a musical instrument.

I'm probably just gonna stay away from steel wool altogether. I understand what you're saying about making those frets shine, and I've done this on a number of acoustics, but it makes me real nervous around magnetics and pickups. I'm just being extra cautious.

Great insights all the way around. Thanks so much for taking the time to write.

Scott

I think the SM polish does a fine job and use it all the time.