Official Luthiers Forum!

I'm not talking about doing it as a living or business side of things, just talking about the skill itself.

It feels almost as though anyone could just become a luthier, like it's so easy all someone needs is a bandsaw and a few tools and they could go on making guitars. Just how easy is it for someone with no backgrounds to be making/fixing guitars professionally? Is it like computer repair where you could just grab someone on the street and make him a repairman virtually overnight?

What are the failure rate of various luthier schools, as in the number of people who just can't get it?

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

"It feels almost as though anyone could just become a luthier, like it's so easy all someone needs is a bandsaw and a few tools and they could go on making guitars."

Feels almost like that eh?

I guess it is pretty easy when you have a forum full of knowledgeable people that can spoon feed you all the answers...




Cheers,
Bob

I can ride a bike. I am not good enough at riding a bike to compete in Le Tour de France.

I can make good guitars. I do not yet have the ability to make great guitars.

It is not too hard these days to learn how to make a good guitar. Does that skill make one a luthier? I think one earns that title by amassing a certain amount of experience and skill that is far beyond what I currently have. I therefore refrain from calling myself a luthier.

Boy there are times in the middle of a build when I call myself lots of things none being a luthier

Blonde No. 1: "How do you become a stylist?"
Blonde No. 2: "Just say you're a stylist."
Blonde No. 1: "I'm a stylist!"

Blonde No. 2: "How do you become a nutritionist?"
Blonde No. 1: "Just say you're a nutritionist."
Blonde No. 2: "I'm a nutritionist!"

I would think a certain amount of dexterity with tools should be demonstrated by trained observers... no klutzes allowed.

_________________
"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

To me, the term means someone who can build and repair a wide variety of stringed instruments.
Oh yeah, and one does not need the ultimate set of tools.

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Websters definition of luthier: one who makes stringed musical instruments (as violins or guitars)

The question should be- How hard is it to be a good luthier?
Technically, any of us who make any stringed instrument, cigar box included, is a luthier.
Therefore I am a luthier, it isn't that hard, a lot of fun, sure, but am I any good at it.......and compared to what?
One day I hope to be a good luthier, though I am not always optimistic.



Brian

_________________
My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

To answer the question, it's really hard until you know what you are doing and why you are doing it.
After you have done it, you need to figure out how to improve it.
I am not a luthier, I just whittle out guitars in my garage.

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

I just wonder if it's as easy as believing that I'm a good luthier?

What I mean is, you know make self fulfilling prophecy work in my favor by saying to myself that I'm a good luthier, regardless of what my guitar builds or repair work look like, and with time everyone believes it. As a result the quality of work improves and the prophecy is fulfilled.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Cogito ergo sum?

_________________
My memory is so good, sometimes I remember things that never happened.

If you say you are a good luthier and you are not, than that word will get around. Rather than a self fulfilling prophecy of you becoming a good luthier, it could be your downfall. Over the years I've had to redo repairs and fix builds that were previously done by people who were supposedly "good luthiers".

If you truly are a good luthier that word will get around. I don't measure the quality of my work only by how good I think I am. But I compare my work to other luthiers who I know are great and have a long established track record. Also by loyal customers that continue to return for more instruments and come from long distances to have me do their repairs.

Like others have said, anyone can call themselves a luthier and according to the dictionary definition that may be true. But it takes a lot of hard work and experience to be a good luthier.

_________________
Josh House

Canadian Luthier Supply
http://www.canadianluthiersupply.com
https://www.facebook.com/canadianluthiersupply?ref=hl
House Guitars - Custom Built Acoustic Instruments.
http://www.houseguitars.com

I have fixed music shop's work too (who often throws words like luthiers around as well).

This only came up because I commented how people bring things to music shops to fix, where they charge very low prices but does often terrible work, fixing things haphazardly and things like that.

Someone said that it is not that music shop isn't capable of doing good work, they just don't feel the market requires such a high quality and they can get a lot of customers even with such low quality work, so in their mind they are doing good work.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I think it's very easy to become a bad luthier and exceedingly difficult to become a great one -
exactly like it is with anything requiring skill and sensitivity..

I think your question is rather silly.

I don't think it's particularly difficult at all. One needs to invest the time into learning how things are done and then develop one's approach to address the issues that invariably arise. This is common to all crafts and most endeavours.

The difference between what you compare, namely the computer repair tech, is that there are people to train that guy off the street to repair a computer. When he runs into a problem he has not yet encountered, he has readily available resources from his employer, and other sources, to remedy that situation.

There are very few "luthier shops" out there with the resources and the interest in training hordes of "luthiers."

Now, accoding to the definition given previously, repair persons are not really luthiers, are they? They don't, in the pursuit of instrument repairs, "make" instruments, though they may well do as well.

One may make the case for a need for formal training, as in an aprenticeship, though I know it is easy to get a position as an aprentice chef, electrician, plumber, tiler, etc in Australia, but I have NEVER seen anyone looking for an aprentice lutheir. So, there is now a grey area, wherein it is unlikely that most people can engage in a formal education program, and yet still must be able to call themselves luthiers, no?

Bottom line, to me, is that if you think the term LUTHIER is so important, call yourself a LUTHIER.

In the end, it is the work that will determine what OTHERS think of you.

Having said all that, some folks shouldn't be touching sharp things......

I'd rather be a builder.

Not a silly question but perhaps a question that is very difficult to answer in a definitive way.
The basic skill required to make a Guitar can be had in a matter of a few months. That doesn't imply that you are a skilled luthier though. It takes a lot longer than that to become a proficient luthier. Of course you may never acquire the skills that some luthiers have. It's one thing to build a basic Guitar. There are a number of makers doing extremely high class, technically difficult work that requires many years of dedication. You don't have to reach their heights but you should be aware that the bar can be set extremely high. That's the problem with trying to answer the question. There is no one set proficiency standard for luthiers, it's actually quite a very diverse range. I suspect it's not that much different for the computer technicians. Some will have a very advanced understanding of electronics theory, software and be able do component level repairs. Few and far between but the really clever ones will be able to design you a circuit or two from scratch.
Others will simply swap out boards until they just happen to hit on the problem (perhaps a little exaggerated). I've come across both forms of technicians. They are miles apart.

Actually I don't think you can pull someone[read anyone?] off the street and make them a computer repairman over night. But, that doesn't have as much to do with the complexity of the job so much as aptitude and interest of the individual being selected for the task.

Assuming you are just talking about someone who goes out and helps users figure out why their speakers buzz when they shove them up next to their heater, or why their keyboard doesn't work after they eat Doritos over it, or plug in a new mouse for them or help them set the screen resolution, then...there is no reason you couldn't pick that same person to clean fretboards with naptha, change strings and adjust a truss rod...over night.

Is there some other name for that guy in a guitar shop? Because that would be a fair comparison.

Exactly the way I look at it too. Especially since I race bikes on the amateur level. I do it because I enjoy it and heck I've even won a handful of races, not an easy thing to do, and have moved up in the ranks but then there is what separates the men from the boys. Genetics and hard work. In fact I was lucky enough to watch this young kid come to my University and join the cycling team. All of a sudden he was kicking arse everywhere. HE was a total natural and it was incredible to see him woop people that were already miles above the average racer. He just finished his first TDF on team Garmin at the age of 25:)

I like this analogy a lot because it's true. Some people can paint images that inspire and are beautiful. They are artists of the highest levels way above their amateur colleagues who still enjoy their art and perhaps even make a bit of money doing it. The fact of the matter is that some people are gifted in all walks of life whether it's painting, athletics, guitar building or competitive eating.

Us mere mortals simply have to accept that.

Does it really matter what you call your self? Your work should speak for itself.

+1

Most people don't know the correct designation, anyways. I no longer correct people when they call me a carpenter.
What you really want is for people to call you for your services. Heck, you can call me Huck Finn, as long as the cheque clears!

Alex

_________________
"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

The only thing I'm interested in is making a fine guitar. Don't really care what other people think. I'm seventy years old and got my first guitar when I was four. In other words I know what a nice guitar is and I'll know when I make one. I don't think it's a stupid or silly question. That's what this is about airing our (opinions).
Once I was unemployed for 18 months and not one for sitting idle. I ordered a book called "How to make a violin" after reading that book I knew how guitars and mandolins and fiddles were made. So I got my pocket knife and began whittling. Here I am today retired and having fun doing what I enjoy. Am I a luthier? Nope I'm an old man who enjoys making guitars,ukeleles, stringed instruments.

What is a luthier? Unfortunately, there is no set definition. For some, the designation is an indication of a certain skill level or perhaps formal training. For others, it is a person who make/repairs stringed musical instruments. Consider similar terms.

• Lawyer - Someone who has passed the Bar exam and is licensed by the state to practice law.
• Golfer* - Someone who plays golf.

You don't need to have any training or skill level to be a golfer. or a skier or a guitarist. Though I occasionally think that requiring a license to play guitar might not be a bad idea.

You better have the training and license to be a lawyer, doctor, architect, or electrician. You'll be in a heap of trouble if you don't. Sure, I've wired a room but I don't call myself an electrician or hire myself out to do that.

Without a governing body to bestow the title of Luthier onto someone, we really can't rely on any other meaning to the term than we would for the word golfer.

* English is a funny language. A professional golfer is someone who has a PGA touring card and plays golf at tournaments for cash prizes. A golf pro is someone who is a PGA certified golf instructor at a golf course or school.

Hey JF, were you the one that bought some sew-ups from me a few years ago? Glad to see you are still racing.


Luthier? I don't think it's rocket science to make a decent instrument if you have the right training and work hard at the process for 5 or 6 years and get 30 of 40 under your belt. My personal experience has suggested that it's hard to improve in a vacuum and you need to seek and be open to critical evaluations by folks that know what they are talking about and follow that advice. You need more than internet forums.

To be a great builder-well yep, there's some natural selection there.

I don't call myself a luthier as in my mind that denotes a very complete craftsman competent in all aspects of building and repair of whatever walks in the door. I consider myself a "guitar maker"

_________________
It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.