Official Luthiers Forum!

My 1st time using Seagraves Lacquer from LMI. Any suggestions before I use it? I am using a HVLP 20 oz gun, with a 30 gal air compressor; water and air filter. Do I need to thin it at all? and with what? No instructions were included. I do have painting experience, I just want to make sure I'm using the correct thinners if needed. Any tips using this product? Thank You. Jason

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

When Seagrave's was McFadden I had the technical department send me their recommended schedule for guitar finishing. At one time they were all the buzz, the only finishing product the boutique builders were using. It always amazes me that they lost their way in the market place -- anyway you can find it linked here:

http://acousticguitarconstructionforum. ... 9a5ce5a5cc

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I used McFadden and now Seagrave (I buy it in the gallon can). I thin with store-bought lacquer thinner. I have a finishing schedule document at work and will post it here tomorrow. I seal with shellac then paste filler (when necessary) then lacquer. This is really good stuff and I see no difference between Mc and Sea.

Michael (your friend at the recent groom's site)

I have used mcfaddens and now segraves exclusively. I've had great luck with both UNTIL this last gallon of segraves I've bought. Not a biggie, but I do have to thin it. Just won't flow out unless I do. Normally, I save reducing until the last could of coats and then I cut it in half. Build coats go on full strength.


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Thanks for the responses.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

This is my general McFadden/Seagrave finishing schedule. I used it on the last 20 guitars.

Lacquer Finishing Schedule Using “Stew Mac” Shellac, “Seagrave” Lacquer


Block sand to 220 grit sand paper making sure to remove all scratches. Spray two coats of 1 lb cut shellac allowing at least 1 hour between coats. After the second coat dries, drop-fill all cracks and voids on the instrument particularly around binding and rosette with full strength lacquer and allow to dry. When these repairs are dry, block sand them lightly with 220 grit sand paper. Do not sand through the finish.


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Apply pore filler if needed. IMPORTANT! Two or more applications may be necessary to fill the pores completely.

After applying pore filler, apply 2 more coats of shellac as above and block sand with 220 grit paper.

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Apply a very thin mist coat of lacquer (1 part lacquer to 1 part thinner). Wait 30 minutes then spray a second coat and wait 1 hour.

Apply two wet building coats of lacquer (3 parts lacquer to 1 part thinner adding about 5% retarder) waiting about 5 minutes between coats. After 1 hour or more, spray 2 more coats with 5 minutes between coats. Allow to dry 2 days.

Look for voids that need to be filled and drop-fill them with full strength lacquer and allow them to dry. Wet block sand with 400 wet or dry paper as necessary to level drips or runs and drop-fills.

Apply 4 more building coats as above and allow to dry 2 days.

Apply 4 more building coats as above and allow to dry 2 days.

Wet block sand the entire instrument with 400 wet or dry paper changing paper as necessary and using water with a bit of dish soap added for lubrication.. This will take 2 or 3 hours. If you “sand through”, add 2 coats of (3 to 1) lacquer.

If no sand throughs, apply 2 finish coats of lacquer (2 parts lacquer to 1 part thinner adding about 10% retarder) waiting 5 minutes between coats. Use your best spraying skill here. Allow to cure 10 to 14 days.

After the lacquer has cured, wet block sand the entire instrument with 400 wet or dry paper until all shiny spots disappear. Continue wet block sanding with 600 then 1200 then 1500 papers removing scratches left by the previous sandings. When you are done the guitar should look very smooth and have a dull satin look.

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Using T shirt material, in sections like 1/6 of the top or ¼ of a side, rub Mequiar’s #4 on the instrument until the compound disappears. The instrument is now beginning to look glossy. Repeat the process with Meguiar’s #7. You are finished.

Michael

Michael, what do you mean by "paste filler"? Actual product name?

Pore "O" Pac from Behlen's is the most popular paste filler. It takes practice, is miserable to work with, but certainly can yield good results. Make sure to thin it using Behlen's thinner and as the directions indicate you should use "burlap" as the wipe off material since it does not pull the filler back out of the pores like a smoother cloth will. Once you have the technique down result can be very good -- as a matter of fact Martin still uses a paste filler. Their trick, if you will is to use a power burnisher to jamb the filler into the pores and I think the heat helps to dry it faster. A huge mistake I made early on was to apply sealer coats before the paste pore filler was completely dry "and the filler never did dry!!!" Top coating were very soft. I had to strip the finish off and start over -- no fun.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

What is a power burnisher? Is this a special wheel used on a buffing machine?

I use Chemcraft dark brown FPFDB filler from Lmii

Michael

Regarding the power burnishers at the Martin Factory -- sorry for the delay but I wanted to check with the engineer before I posted a response. Note it is a very messy operation! However, simple enough ---- for the body they use a wide, large diameter sisal buffing wheel and the necks are processed the same with smaller buffing wheels.

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Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I wanted to thank you for the lacquer schedule Michael. Gonna try it

kencierp,
Thanks for the power burnished tip, think I'll try some test pieces with my PC 7424 XP polisher.



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Now that's cool looking. Where do you get the right pads for it?

Can sisal wheels on a buffing machine (like most of us use) do the job?

Mike

You are welcome Mike O. I do have to make adjustments to the schedule from time to time. The schedule is most affected by pore filling issues. The pore filling step needs to be repeated several times on some guitars. If you don't get those pores filled early on then sand throughs are more likely down the road.

Michael

Autogeek.net is a good source for pads though I'm just going to just tie on a piece of burlap to the pad.
The PC polisher does a good job of polishing out lacquer, I use 3M products.
You just have to block in a body or get another pair of hands to hold it down so it doesn't go flying. the PC is too heavy to use one - handed for long.



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So far I've put on 3 coats. I didn't thin it at all. It goes on pretty nice. I'm going to sand down a little and put some more on. I'm getting a lot of overspray. I might need to turn my air down. Thanks for all the help guys.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Well I got pretty good results. Thank you all for the responses. It is a really nice hard finish. I shot it straight from the can. I don't have a buffer other than my arms, so its not quite as shiny probably as it could be. I'm happy with it.

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Jason Moe
LaCrosse WI 54601

Looks like you didn't sand the wood fine enough because I can see scratches under the finish.