Official Luthiers Forum!

So true.... I am a Texan and have been told that the much-amended Texas constitution has an amendment that makes carrying a pair of wire-cutters in your back pocket while crossing someone else's pasture a criminal offense.... LOL. Back to the old cattle rustlings days (but it still goes on from what I hear).

Filippo, were you transporting wood when you broke the speed limit? That's a Lacey violation!

The wire cutters goes back to the "free range" days, and cutting a barbed wire fence was(and may still be) a felony.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

I break a law about every hour...it's a friggin joke.

Anyway, What I'd do is remove the bridge, then ship the guitar. Send the bridge separately. That way, if it gets caught, it's only a bridge.

Or replace the bridge with ANYTHING but brazilian. Madagascar perhaps?

We definitely need stronger laws. The ones we have are so easy to break....

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

If there is pearl in it that can also get it confiscated .

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

So what would be a good replacement bridge species? I have read that Tucurensis and Stevensii are considered by some to be the most similar.

I think I heard Grumpy say Amazon Rosewood is a very close relative and substitute. I picked up some a while ago and haven't tried it yet, but it rings like my Brz bridge blanks.

Brent

As far as customer risk goes, that's a very good question. It's possible that for a single guitar, doing the paperwork invites more scrutiny and actually increases the chances of delays, fines, and impoundment. As for protecting yourself, it's my understanding that a good faith attempt at the paperwork will protect the shipper from the biggest fines. The last seminar I went to on the subject made it appear that problems are rare but there is no sure way to prevent them.

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http://www.chassonguitars.com

The two biggest problems with Lacey, in my opinion, are the difficulty of determining what's 'legal', and the fact that confiscation is not considered a 'punishment'. If we were not is such a high-value-added business the loss of a set of wood now and then might not be so painful, but in most cases the the labor so far exceeds the material cost that it becomes a real burden. Due diligence won't help with that: illegal wood is like stolen property: it was never 'yours' in the first place. Proper diligence should, of course, help you to avoid buying illegal materials, but there will always be cases where you've missed something, or been unable to track it down as well as you 'should' have, or simply interpret the law differently from the F&W Service. I think when this really gets going it will end up in a lot of 'self censorship', if you will: people passing up good and legal materials simply for lack of proof.

I am enjoying the responses but originally I asked for no shoulds. As it has come up I will say that I think we should be able to use the wood that is cut. No doubt there are other opinions but if I run on a stash of Braz from a builder that has died I cant prove where it came from. Even if he was alive he probably wouldnt know. What are we to do with this quality wood, burn it? I am in favor of not cutting more trees but there is too much unneeded legislation in this world.

Itswednesday14,
I LOVE brw. I think it is the most beautiful wood in the world and it also happens to be perfect for guitars. Like it or not cites is a fact of life for luthiers so you have to deal with the regulations if you want to be international.
My opinion is if you find that secret stash of brw, use it! But just don't try to ship it out of the country.
Cocobolo, Honduran rw, Malaysian blackwood, etc. can be just as good sonically, so if I had to make a guitar that will cross international borders for delivery or touring, go with non cites species

itswednesday14 wrote:
" What are we to do with this quality wood, burn it?"

That's where forensic testing will have to become more common. I suspect that, as stocks of 'legal' wood become more and more restricted, and the price of such testing comes down (due, in part, to higher demand) it will become economical to get sets cleared as 'pre-CITES'. I think there will always be people willing to pay for the 'ultimate'.

" I am in favor of not cutting more trees but there is too much unneeded legislation in this world."

There is too much stupid legislation, that's for sure!

I tried looking at the cities site today but don't understand how it works? Can anyone post the exact link to d. nigra that shows what you can't do. And, for example, can you go to d. retusa at their site & it says something like "no restrictions" ?

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Mike McNerney

So can anyone tell me what's the issue with shell, why is FWS regulating them? I mean I've been to restaurants where we've eaten Abalone and the shell just gets thrown away anyways, so is the creature endangered or on CITES in any way? Or is it just FWS making up their own regulation?

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Tai .. USFW regulates ANY and ALL animals and animal parts .... that's just what they do. It has actually been that way for years, they just figured out recently that guitars can have lots of shell on them. The only shell that's illegal and is on CITES AFAIK is white abalone from South Africa . never even heard of it, much less seen any before.

For the most part, you get your license, fill out the paperwork, and then pay your fee when it hits customs .... I doubt that most single guitar shipments with papers ever get opened and inspected, they just collect the money, and get out the rubber stamp. You can tell .. if you send something Fedex and it arrives on time, then it likely didn't get held up in customs. All of my US shipments have all the required paperwork in triplicate (including USFW, for which I have a license), and I have never had any issues. But I dont send out BRW either .. every thing is legal, it has to be .. if you get blacklisted by customs, they likely wont allow you or your products into the US again ... not a chance I am willing to take.

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

This is incorrect. In exporting a guitar, USFWS expects a declaration of the species and country of origin of all animal products, i.e., shell, as well as any materials that are CITES Appendix I, i.e. Brazilian. This is using form 3-177. They do not require you to list every wood in your guitar. I export regularly, and through the very same USFWS office through which PRS Guitars ships their guitars. After the amendments became active, my first guitar was a sapele/German guitar for a client in Australia. I made an index of everything in the guitar by species, country of origin, and approximate weight in grams. The inspection officer tossed it all and only wanted what needed to be declared, in this case only the shell used in the peghead, rosette, and position markers.

PPQ-505 is an USDA/APHIS form for the importation of animal and plant products, not for their exportation.

The Lennox was great on most things, but too few teeth and too aggressive when I needed to cut some ebony. I actually broke the blade. I've resawn a bunch of padauk without any problem. Certainly doesn't get bogged down too much. The Delta just isn't designed to do resawing, despite the riser block. With a 1hp motor, and more importantly the flex in the frame, it just isn't stout enough.