Official Luthiers Forum!

@ Miguel - Alfacinha de gema mas a viver no Canada desde 2005

There's something I don't understand though...Is it that delusional to think about making a living out of guitar building?

You guys seem to say that it's more of a hobby than an actual professional option...

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CNC is a tool, not cheating

"newbie question: are you allowed to mention you´re a luthier on a first date?"

That depends on what mental illness she admits to.


I think for most of us we have accepted that building guitars would be a difficult way to pay the bills. As much as we might like to do that, reality gets in the way. A lucky and talented few can command the prices and have enough of a following to support themselves as guitar builders. Most of those I would classify as professional luthiers are repair people.

But if you never have a dream , you will never have a dream come true.

Was building custom furniture and needed a new guitar - figured it couldn't be that hard ......................................

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Puresound (i don´t yet know your name), the guys i know (here in PT) that make a living out of it are all single and live quite frugal lives, maybe canada is a better place for lutherie. Have you met Nuno Cristo? He´s also a portuguese expatriate living in Canada (Toronto?) , he might be able to assist you. thinking about it, maybe there is a market for portuguese guitars in canada, with the fado thing slowly growing? just a thought.



Abraço,
Miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

It won't get you laid.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Miguel, the name is Daniel. Nice to meet you

Canada is indeed a better place for lutherie. I live in Montreal, and there are a few luthiers around here, but more in the acoustic and violin side of things. The OSM (orchestra) is pretty big around here, the classical music scene is pretty strong. So all the string instrument family is a potential business, but as you are surely aware, very hard to make a good name.

So my idea would be to focus more on the electric side of things, and follow the steps of great luthiers like Nik Huber, Ruokangas, Gil Yaron, and the likes. Focus on custom instruments but within a few controlled designs.

My website will be up soon, i'll post it here or the sake of the discussion.

The portuguese guitar would be an interesting option, although I haven't been able to find a good 2D drawing of one. Any ideas?

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CNC is a tool, not cheating

Delusional? No me wood~en't say so...there are lots of guys and gals making a living working on the assembly line for Martin and Fender and Taylor and all the other guitar making companies.

Your right...however the "guys" that are replying are not indicative of the forums entire membership...very few of the "true" hard core professional members ever post to dis here "Official" forum as they are too busy building, although a few have replied to this thread. So that leaves the semi pro philanthropists who are really just therapists for the rest of us hobbyists and wanna beeists. Then there are the "jokers" ~ thank god for the jokers!
But then thats just my take on it.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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nice to meet you too.
portuguese guitar: not really, but i can ask my teacher for specs.


good luck!

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

OK Puresoundguitar dude.

the dust on this thread is starting to settle, so lets look at the BIG picture here, well the big pic according to Padma of course.

Your buzz words..."Buisness luthier, approach, true"



Ok.

One starts off becoming a luthier with the idea to build a guitar.

One does not have to be a builder to make guitars

Chris Martin is not a builder but he sure is a "proffessional" loofer and a business man. Just look at all the instrument he churns out and the $ him make.

You wanna talk business...ok lets do it right.

So as a young man me met this here really old, really filthy stinkin rich dude who told me how to become a Bazzillionair...went like this.

It averages about $50K to fully set up a one man state of the art looferin around type shop.
So he said, take a few grand and drawings of what you wanna build and cut a deal with some one like Axe in Asia for 5000 units, for around $25-30 each ( hard shell case included and in a nice and pretty eye poppin cardboard box) with 50 units paid for up front ($1,500) Remainder dropped shipped into Dallas or O'hara on a contractual agreement within 30 days, @ 10% down (the $1,500) and net balance 120 days.

Then hire a sale person, give him a half dozen samples, a business card and sick him after the Walmart account for all the remaining 4,950 of them at $50~60 each. net 60 days FOB O'hara or Dallas or where ever. Secure the token 10% down. Take the paper to the bank... float the rest, pay off sales person, Axe, your ex, your bookie, bar buddies, retire to sunshine and lolly pops in South America and wait for the net 60 day check from Walmart cuz you just bagged you first quarter million, in 3 months by writing a few emails, singing a few pieces of paper and sending a few bucks through Paypal. Like thats really a lot of no brainer, hard work.

Then do it all over again only change the guitars colour and the packaging each time. Within a year or two, you be well on your way to being a bazillionair. Cuz once you got this formula down, why you'll find all sorts of junk and gadgets that Americans will love to buy at Walmart. Me really encourage you to do this cuz the economy needs a boost.

See the whole thing floats on only 10% (your original $1,500) and if it don't work, sell the original 50 on ebay at $299 each. Declare bankruptcy and you still got $48,500 of the original 50K to do the one man shop thing, plus $15,000 more from ebay for all the hassle.

So me asked him if thats what he did....he replied...


"Naw, wasn't worth it"


Point here is... were do you wanna fit in between the dream of building a guitar and retiring to South America as a gazzilion air? Hmmmm. Somewheres on that line you gonna find "true" happiness...maybe.

Just remember at the end of the garden path me here tell there be this needle with an eye in it.


and me...me just likes to make sawdust. Oh and drinking black beer. Simple eh.

Right!


blessings
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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I was spending $3,500-$5,000+ on the gitters I wanted to play and still ended up selling them a year later, I thought, well.... I already have construction tools, I'll just round out my selection with some fine woodworking tools.....
uh now I realize $3,500-$5,00 is a bargain...
Nah....jk > Im completely satisfied with the extra 12,000 plus Ive invested ..... and I am working on alot more things than just guitars now too... tools, wooden masks, furniture, custom doors and other pieces (counterbars, dressing screens, picture frames, etc) sculptures, hell I've even got half my wheelchair outfitted with wooden parts..lol
And yes guitars too.....
I have no money, but no regrets either...
Ive spent money alot more foolishly, than what I have on this hobby/obsession...
cheers
charliewood

I've been reading this thread as it got updated, and I've come to realize it was more about "Can my dream come true", right? I always worry
about threads of this sort, as there's no true answer, but all sorts of opinions. I have been a student of the craft, and like to consider myself
such for a long time coming. What I have learned to date, is that many folks have romantic dreams that come true all the time. But, and
there's the dreaded word, you've got to make sure you're entering into the fray with both eyes opened. The one thing I have yet to find
is that individual who on Monday said to himself, "You know what, I'm gonna be a successful Luthier" and by Friday was already stressed
out about the waiting list. As a matter of fact, I'd be willing to wager (a small amount of course) that every one of those $15,000.00 guitar
builders with 2 year waiting lists, spent many, many, many years wondering just how much mold could get on bread and it still be edible.

None of that was meant to be discouraging, at all, for the record. It's more of a friendly reminder that the one thing we've seemed to run
out of in this smaller world of ours, is that instant success with very limited effort. Only you can measure your brand of success. In short,
I'm pretty sure that Mr. Bill Gates has an entirely different thought about "minimum balance" in his checking account than I do. But, I do know
this for a fact; he gets no more satisfaction from buying another Google than I do making my first rosette. Our "dreams" were just a little different. If you're ready to work yourself to the bone, sacrifice all the things that everyone around "has" or "will get", question yourself
constantly "Is it worth it", and push yourself to limits you never imagined were possible, then absolutely your dreams can come true. The
good news is, you've got the hard part done; you have one (dream, that is). It's all downhill from here.

(Man, can Eric wax poetic or what???)

Well...
- One day I thought "why not make a guitar"
- got me the Cumpiano book and a LMI kit
- signed up on the OLF
- read a lot, asked questions
- built the kit, was proud as can be, thought it's time to move on and build a guitar from scratch
- ordered wood for one guitar
- ordered wood for a second guitar
- planned out the next 5 guitars and bought the tonewood
- decided that making a living by building guitars would be the ultimate goal
- started to answer questions on OLF in addition to asking them since I now was a successful kit builder and aspiring fulll-time luthier
- bought more wood
- bought some tools
- built the second guitar. In the process I ordered more wood and bought more tools
- finished the 2nd guitar, even more proud than after the first
- bought more wood since I didn't have the right wood for number 3
- started number 3
- first child was born
- priorities shifted dramatically
- never finished number 3
- was looking to buy a house for my family
- made an honest assessment of how I want to spend my time in the next few years
- realized that I would never be able to spend a lot of time building guitars
- sold everything from all the tonewood to all the specialized tools so I wouldn't have any baggage when selecting our home
- have a beautiful family - and time for them
- have a sweet house - without any space for a workshop
- still come here sometimes for some build threads
- hope that someday I'll have more time to build again, but if not it's all good too

If you're seriously considering doing this for a living, do yourself a huge favor and read Kent Everett's book, "How to Make a Living Doing Something Crazy."

It's an honest, realistic look at the pitfalls (and the positives) of trying to make a living building guitars. And it's also a very funny, enjoyable read.

Steve

Yo, Zlurgh,
go take a laxative and this too will pass.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Yo Alex
You eye balled Johnson?
Ya right!
Me don't know whos better at shovelin it...you or me.

Johnson was dead 20 years by the time yo momma dropped you on yo head.


Your turn.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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OK, it was my buddy Scott Johnston. He had a nice Hagstrom 12 string that folded when he open the case one hot, humid summer, 40 years ago. Guitar repairman said it couldn't be fixed, but offered him $200 for it and the case. My first semi-brush with the nefarious side of back alley lutherie. He probably still has it.
The 12 siblings and the sharecropper parents was bs, as well.
Actually, the only true part was about not playing guitar very well.
Mom must have used my head for a basketball.

Ball in your court, Padma!

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Well, it all started one hot summer day when I wen-

Wait, you said "true luthiers"

Never mind then. I'm just a hobbyist enjoying making a few guitars every now and then.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Off & on woodworking geek.

Fascinated by exotic woods & had a small stock pile.

Decided to try to learn to play at age 43 when daughter gave up on her lessons.

Bought a Taylor then built a Martin kit for fun.

Sold the Taylor, working on builds 7 and 8 now. Just a hobby, better than playing golf.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

One evening sometime about 1983, I was sitting in a friend's den. I gazed over to his book shelf and saw a title: "Classical Guitar Construction" by Irving Sloane. As I leafed through it, I thought to myself: "This is really a thing I could do." That was because Mr. Sloane's presentation (regardless of what you may think of his methods) made the whole process seem so approachable. That was his genius. He made the entire craft seem approachable to the hobbyist--many, many years before there was such a thing as the Internet.

I love to play jazz rhythm guitar and had always wanted an arch top. Actually owning one seemed far beyond my means. You would not believe how many fine Gibsons (and even a D'Angelico) I passed up when they were offered to me, because I just couldn't afford such a thing. I began to ponder the possibility of learning to build in gradual steps which would eventually take me to my arch top. That is precisely what happened, although the journey took about fifteen years. About 1988, I discovered another title by Mr. Sloane--all about making a steel string flat top. It included a very informative section about James D'Acquisto and his remarkable archtops. BINGO! I was hooked. I built a classical. I re-necked a plywood archtop. I built luthier's tools. I built anything that interested me. I just kept at it. I finally achieved my arch top about five years ago. It has been well received by a none-too-descriminating public. It actually plays quite well and looks beautiful to me.

I'm still doing it. I have no desire to do this as a business. For me, it's an artistic hobby. But I do have a short list of friends who would buy my instruments if I ever wanted to sell any of them. Some day, I might do that. For now, all these years later, I am still building only those instruments that capture my interest at any given time. Then I move on. I might take a year off to paint gallery art, but I always come back to stringed instruments sooner or later. I love them. In my view, they are so much more than just stringed instruments. They are beautiful examples of sculptural art. I strive to make them sound good and I strive to make them look good. At the moment, I have a tenor banjo and a mandolin in the works, and I have plans and intentions for another archtop, a small jumbo flat top and a 00 sized flat top.

That's my true story. No fiction here. It's my story and I'm stickin' to it.

Patrick

I saw a poster in a bar in India advertising 3 week guitarmaking courses...
Next time I went, I made sure I had time to do the course.
Then came the very slow acquisition of tools.
In a few weeks, I should be finishing my third guitar.

I've done woodwork on and off since I was a kid with my dad, learned to be a boatbuilder/furniture maker, and was looking at my guitar one day thinking I would NEVER want to make one of those things! So of course, I had to start reading about how they were built and one thing led to another and I'm now just starting numbers 3,4 and 5!

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"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

Hey guys,

Thanks a lot for your feedback! It's really interesting to see the different approaches and overall experiences.

My goal (dream, if you wish) is doing guitars for a living, without necessarily wanting to become gazzilionnaire ( thanks Padma ).

So, if you guys have more opinions go ahead and share them.

Something that I'd like to know is how did you start acquiring tools? Ebay? local markets? Brand new online?

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CNC is a tool, not cheating

Same here!
As for tools, ebay is definitely a great place to go, especially if you're willing to wait for good bargains to come up. I picked up a 12'' bandsaw for £90 delivered ($150) and a pillar drill for a bit less, plus various other bits and pieces.

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"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

Your welcome.

Dream your dream and may it be so.

Ebay? local markets? Brand new online? What difference does it make...as long as you get them with out thievery.

Ok...my take...enough BSen around, start makin sawdust and posting pics of you first build.


blessings

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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I met a guy at a friend's christmas party about 11 or 12 years ago that brought a guitar he had made. I thought it was awsome. He had taken Frank Finocchio's guitar making class and had made 10 or 12 guitars. He invited me to come over and look around his shop. While showing me around he asked if I wanted to build one. I jumped at the chance. He was very gracious and took me though building my first one in his shop (a deep body OM in ovangkol). Then with that experience and reading everything I could get my hands on and reading from the OLF I started acquiring basic tools and started making guitars in my garage. I average about one per year. I recently finished my 10th, a L-00 with a sunburst. I have not sold any yet. I have been working on perfecting my kraft. Each one gets better... My wife says we're running out of space, but I find they're hard to let loose of... I'm afraid that if I were to make it a money-making venture it would suck the joy out of it...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com