Official Luthiers Forum!

I would like to hear opinions and see pictures of guitars that have sapwood with and without backstrips. Also, if your sides are wide enough to eliminate the sapwood is it desirable to do so? If you must use sapwood on the sides, should it join with the top or back? Any important things to know about when working with it?

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Not all sapwood can be used. It depends on the species, some have sapwood that is non functional as wood while others the difference is more cosmetic.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

As mentioned, not all species have suitable sapwood.
But where included. I personally prefer not to use a back strip.
On the sides, I prefer to keep it, if proportional and pleasing, and to position it towards the soundboard.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Filippo's first post has all the points I was about to make about back strips. As for the sides, it can look nice. I would orient it on the soundboard side since that is the straighter profile and you will plane/sand away less sapwood when you taper the box. Your binding purfling scheme may need to be adjusted depending on the colors you are using. . .

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Which woods have unsuitable sapwood? Come to think of it, I believe the only guitars with sapwood that I have seen were either Cocobolo or Ziricote.

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

This is the set that I had in mind when I made the original post. The grain is straight enough that I was considering a strip. The Greenridge in pic #1 makes a compelling argument for no strip with straight grain, though.

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Personally, I think a backstrip wouldn't look good on that back. It looks great as it is.
And I think sapwood on the sides can look stunning.

_________________
"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

IMHO, it is not a question of species. The viability of sapwood is mainly determined by how the wood was processed. Sapwood is much more vulnerable to decay, fungus staining, and worm holes. If the wood is processed right away, the chance of degrade in the sapwood is much less. Once the wood is dry, degrade stops.
The key is timing.....bearing in mind that the degrade happens a lot quicker in the tropics.
I have always used a backstrip when sapwood is present in the center of the back, but I just play around with the sides to see which edge looks best. In many cases, the Brazilian RW sides I have used are only large enough to be used one way.
Brazilian RW:






Interestingly, most people who see sapwood in the raw sets don't like it, but when I show them a finished guitar, they change their mind:




Amazon RW


Honduran RW:

_________________
John

Gorgeous set Use it just like it is.

I tend to like backstrips on guitars without sapwood, since the back can be kind of boring otherwise. And with curly woods, I hate the look of the runout inversion at the centerline, but interrupting it with a strip makes it look more symmetrical again.

Sapwood is kind of like a natural backstrip... I see no reason to add any more, unless there are symmetry issues needing to be distracted from.

I consider it a tragic waste to cut the sapwood off trees before slicing them up. You can always make the sets extra wide, and then chop off the sapwood when joining if you don't like it. Madagascar rosewood is especially sad, because the trees are too narrow for QS backs, and a lot more sets would have the "eye" outside the waist if they kept the extra inch or two of sapwood in the middle. You can always add a center wedge of maple or something for a similar effect, but it doesn't look as nice as the natural edges of the heart to sap transition.

I love sapwood. I think it can look really cool!
Depending on the set, I usually orient the sapwood on the sides towards the back, it can be quite decorative.

_________________
Old growth, shmold growth!

I'm in the no-backstrip camp...

_________________
Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

I think sapwood works perfectly by itself as a very organic back strip. My personal preference is to find sets which also feature sufficient sapwood on the sides so that it is visible along the entire side.

This Malaysian ebony is my favourite example to date:

Wow, now THAT'S a nice gift!

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

If actual strength was the only concern than most sap wood would be suitable for use as long as it was aesthetically acceptable. We deal with wood in extremely small cross section and it behaves somewhat differently at this scale. sapwood is very open in cellular structure. It was designed and used to transport sugar water (sap) throughout the tree. The heartwood has been "modified from this form to provide a structural element with no other real biological function. Wood does not forget this, it remembers it was a tree, always. As such, sapwood can be more susceptible to movement caused by RH swings. This effect can be magnified by our thin cross sections. Heavier, denser woods seem to have less differences here. As do woods with generally high resin content. I also agree with John about processing. The sapwood in air dried stock always seems a bit punkier.

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

So I have some rosewood pieces big enough for fretboards and bridges. So you could make a fretboard with half sapwood and half heartwood, for instance. What do folks think of using sapwood on Fretboards and bridges?? I think it could be used in an interesting way, but I'm not sure if people would think it would look strange.

Jonas

Sapwood on a fretboard? Yup. It can look great.

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Indeed... I try to keep it on the side that won't get dirty though...

I have a sapwood fetish.
Here are 4 of mine.

_________________
Support the OLF! Bookmark our STEWMAC link Today!
Lance@LuthiersForum.com

Bubinga....
Blackwood....
Ziricote....

I prefer the sapwood without a backstrip. In fact, if the bookmatch is good, I prefer no backstrip at all...

Tony and Fili, well played on the fretboards!

I generally like sapwood on the back if it is not parallel to the seam and has an ending. (such as Nicki's) Or if it is, as long as it's not wider than a quarter inch per side.

_________________
Pat

Sapwood heaven from the sapwoodwhisperer.

Well that JPG didn't transfer, but I was referring to his/her cocobolo guitar.

_________________
Pat

Holy kaleidoscope, Batman! Youse guys are reeeeeaaaal good! Take it from me, otherwise known as "wierdo artist guy" - More asymmetry, please.