Official Luthiers Forum!

that´s what i keep telling myself, but chisels keep piling up...

_________________
member of the guild of professional dilettantes

now we is talking...

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Based on this thread I ordered one of the round backs in 1" - a size I only had in an old Stanley carpenter's style. It's a nice chisel, I'm going to order several more. I used to do some carving so I've got a pretty complete set of Pfiel's and a fair number of Flexcut's. The Ashley Isles seems to be at least as good and I might decide I like them better after I spend some time with them. I really like the round back - it seems to make the chisel easier to manipulate while I'm working.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I am curious as to why it would be easier to manipulate, in what way does the round back help with that? Or is it just the feel and balance of the chisel in general?

So anyone that owns some of these AI round back chisels, is it true that the backs are actually slightly hollowed to aid in sharpening/flattening the back upon initial set-up? I heard this somewhere (maybe TFWW website) and thought it to be interesting if true, seems like a hard variable to control during heat treatment but I'm not real sure.

As for the honing guide issue, it depends on what style honing guide you use. These chisels will probably not work if you're using a Veritas MKII honing guide. They will probably work fine in an Eclipse style guide, which I use 95% of the time. I used to free hand hone but find it just as easy clamping my blades up in an eclipse style honing guide and maintaining a micro-bevel of around 30deg.

I can't say it enough but I really recommend some people try out the new Veritas PMV11 chisels. They really are a very nice tool and it has been proven time and again that this steel really is lasting longer than A2 and especially 01. It is right up there with a well made Japanese chisel in edge holding and probably lasts a bit longer than most well made Japanese chisels. They are also a very comfortable chisel and their balance is perfect. I still like my LN socket chisels a bit more in terms of comfort but Veritas really has done something right with their new offerings.

I do detail work with thumb and forefinger on the blade and the other hand on the handle. I also hold the blade when I'm using a mallet. I guess I just like the feel of the chisel as I work better than the ones I have that have a more rectangular cross section.

The Veritas PMV11 look nice but they are about double the price.

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I came across these chisels earlier on:

http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/page.aspx?p=70784&cat=51&ap=1

I really like the look of them and they are quite cheap!

I was wondering if anyone had used them or could offer some feedback?

Thanks
Dave

_________________
To be someone must be a wonderful thing!

To be honest, just from the picture (never having handled them) they look too thick (about 1/4"?) and heavy bladed ( poorly balanced) and look more like a firmer chisel (for chopping) then a bevel-edged - and with uncomfortable handles. I/m no metallurgist, but I think SS's edge holding properties may be suspect.
Come to think of it, they look a bit like the cutlery set that I bought years ago in Thailand which is still, I think, in the bottom of a cupboard somewhere.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Well...I've gotta say I'm with Arnt on this one. I buy them all at flea markets and antique shops. I favor socket chisels with the sockets angled slightly upwards so the handle doesn't interfere with the blade lying flat on the bench (or the surface to be pared, etc.) After a few trials, I quickly learn which blades are best for which purpose, and I quickly know my "go to" tools for any given task. I add slowly to my collection, and I don't buy them unless they appear to be easily restorable. No deep pitting, etc. I don't buy them unless they are reasonably priced. I don't know how to tell you what "reasonably priced" means. If they seem like they're probably worth the money, and if I don't have that size or blade shape, I buy them. I have quite few old pattern maker's chisels with long blades and straight sides. I love them. I have quite a few chisels with beveled sides, too. I only have a few contemporary carpenter's chisels, but even some of those aren't bad for certain tasks. I like to turn new handles for my chisels. But, as I've often said before, I'm not doing any of this professionally, so working on the tools is as much fun for me as working on the instruments. This gives me a bit of a comfort level with the trial and error of old tools. I realize that a lot of you guys can't afford to waste time on old tools like I do. But those of you who can will often be well rewarded with excellent steel.

I may be a bit of a minimalist. These are all I ever use: a set of Japanese blue steel bench chisels (easily my favorite all-purpose), a no-name brute for when I think I might chip a blade, a Hirsch crank neck for cleaning up glue and tapering braces, some little carving gouges which are my favorites for brace carving, and a pick. Besides a few knives I find these are pretty much all I need for all my lutherie tasks.

Lots of good information on this thread.

What about A2 tool steel versus the others? It looks like Lie Nielsen & Blue Spruce are the only ones to use A2?

I'm lazy, impatient & often put off sharpening which causes more problems than if I stopped & sharpened. I have old Marples chisels & an Ahsley Iles regular bevel edge bench chisel. The steel in the Ashley is better than the Marples but not dramatically so IMO - I suspect it's 0-1? Would A2 be very much better? I'd only be using it for paring, no chopping.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I've got the old original Veritas honing jig & angle guide with Japanese waterstones. I think I primarily use the 1200 then the 4000.

If I was competent at freehand sharpening it wouldn't be an issue.

I don't like stopping, going to the sink, jigging up the chisel, setting the angle, 1200 grit stone, clean jig/chisel, 4000 grit stone, clean jig/chisel again, dry jig/chisel, return to work. I'm usually not this much of a whiner.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Todd basically nailed a good sharpening method down for most that dislike this process. I think sharpening should NEVER become a chore that you put off until absolutely necessary. You just end up creating more work for yourself and at worst can cause unsafe situations at the bench when trying to drive a dull chisel through wood. I personally do not use the diamond stone that I use on my blades to flatten my waterstones, I have a dedicated diamond stone for this. I have wasted too many diamond stones using them on both.

As Todd said, the 4000 grit stone really isn't quite enough to get a top notch edge. If stopping there I highly recommend stropping your edge with some green compound available at places like Lee Valley. Instead of leather I charge a piece of MDF as I feel the leather dubs my edges. The MDF works awesome and is a good finishing hone for someone without fine 8000grit+ waterstones. I now finish up with a 13000grit Sigma Power waterstone. For anyone looking to upgrade or get some high quality waterstones I highly recommend checking out Stu over at Toolsfromjapan. With the exchange rate where it is right now you can get great stones at real good value.

And again I agree with Todds recommendation of honing guides. The side clamping eclipse style guide is just too easy to use especially with a few different stops set up to get you at your correct angle very quickly. There are tons of sharpening videos on youtube and Deneb at Lie Nielsen is a very good instructor. I've actually had many conversations with him at LN showroom (an hour and half drive for me) about the massive amount of woodworkers who just can't get a good edge or don't want to take the small amount of time to learn. It should not be a chore that you dread.

So, waterstones have dulled your diamonds?

_________________
Pat

FYI Woodcraft has the Dia Sharp stones on sale - still a little more than Amazon but I like to support them because I appreciate the convenience.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Be picky when buying your dia sharps. I have heard a lot of ppl lately ending up with really out of flat stones, which is not a good stone flattener for obvious reasons.

Mostly it was the steel work that wasted away my diamond stones before I separated the the process of sharpening and flattening my stones. But I have killed a diamond stone using it strictly on waterstones. But this is from continually flattening a Naniwa Chosera 400 grit waterstone. This stone is tough as nails. I should've known better than to keep flattening it with my diamond plate. It didn't take long before the plate was useless for flattening any more stones.

I agree with you on the O1 steel for a paring/brace carving chisel....

I have a couple Blue Spruce paring chisels.. and I feel like they are *almost* perfect - except the edge becomes quite brittle when honed at a fine angle.... They really hang in there well at 30 degrees... but that's just WAY too fat for a brace shaving chisel..... and at 20 degrees - they seem to flake/chip too much for my liking.... a really well forged and properly heat treated O-1 would be the ticket...

Now... When we are talking about cleaning up back, sides, and neck mortises, binding channels, and other miscellaneous grooves for this and that - I sure do love that A-2 steel with it's extra toughness and abrasive resistance... as a real fine, low angle O-1 blade would just dull too fast.. In that case, the extra bit of angle doesn't hinder like it does when you are trying to pare Spruce - and that's the trade off.... On Spruce - the performance increases so much with the finest edge you can get...

Thanks