Official Luthiers Forum!

You know, I have been building with wood now for a long time... some of it with wood I bought back in the 70's. Problem is, I am getting tired of building with most of the same trad stuff like mahogany, walnut, rosewood, ebony, and so on. I am almost sick of flamed, curly, or quilted maple. There's so much of it out there, we should be using it for toilet paper - you take my meaning?

In the meantime, for years I have wanted to build with koa, or osage orange, or chestnut, or bloodwood, or some of this stuff that's not trad at all. I've got some paduak and purple heart that's been laying around for a couple decades, but it's very plain stuff. And no one ever wanted any on their instrument.

By the way, I'm not talking flattops here, folks - I build electrics. Solidbodys, chambered stuff, semi-hollows. Sure, I can bend some veneer or even 1/4 inch stuff for a dropped top - but I want something thick enough to carve. I like curvy women and curvy guitars. Flat stuff is no fun for me to make. A simple radius around the front and back is not good enough for me. I don't like the way the light reflects in a big glaring splash from a flat surface. Think reflections off a heavily chromed 50's or 60's bumper, where the photographer can hide in the swirl of shapes. Down with slabs. Curves rule.

I want something new, for a price that won't make me cry (I have bills to pay, and I also play with old cars). Koa is just fricking RIDICULOUS when it comes to prices, folks. Ounce for ounce it has outstripped gold, I'm pretty sure. The plain or ugly stuff is affordable, but no one wants it. Oh - I would buy it if a client specified something high dollar, but I'm mostly building what I want these days, and if it sells later - YIPPEE for me!

Our esteemed vendors don't have what I want. I paid to read the classifieds for a full year, and didn't see a single stick of wood I wanted in all that time. eBay prices are nearly criminal, and I haven't even mentioned shipping rates. Am I wrong to want something flashy for an affordable price?

I must admit, after twenty years - I am finally coming around to liking spalted wood figure. For a long time, I just thought, "who the hell wants some mildewed wood?". It's the stuff I used to burn in the chiminea, you know? Or in the campfire for some olfactory variety after we were done cooking supper.

I bit the bullet awhile back, and paid through the nose for some insanely figured redwood. I'm letting it sit before I cut it, and it's destined for a big project I keep making more complicated as I build it in my mind. Should be awesome when finally unleased on an unsuspecting six string world.

But I'm still far short of being satisfied. So.... am I just a bitter old curmudgeon of a luthier? Am I asking too much, or lost in the past? Am I just a whiner?

I'd like to hear your thoughts.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I dunno about Wenge toilet paper.

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I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

I'm with you. I keep picking up odd bits and bobs when I see them. I'm lucky to live in Australia, where blackwood is available for(usually) a bit less than the price of a kidney--only got one left, so can't afford to splurge again....

I think the reality is that our supply of timbers is becoming more and more constricted. Too many people wanting the same thing. Classic case of demand outstripping supply....

I think spalted anything just looks like junk. I'd never use it for anything.

However, within the families you mentioned, I have seen some insanely figured stuff. (Kidney worthy)

We have a tree down here called Queensland Maple. Obviously NOT a maple, but I have my eye on a couple solid body pieces that would be awesome. $400 awesome......

I haven't built a solid body yet, and think that curly maple, while nice, is a bit over-rated..


I think we just have to get used to it. Timber is only going to get more expensive, so pick up whatever you can afford to stash now, and reap the benefits later....Think Brasilian Rosewood......

Sooner or later, the customer will have to make other choices. In the meantime, if you want me to keep my eyes open for a nice chunk of Qld Maple and/or Tassie Blackwood, PM me....

Indeed, variety is good. And I can certainly understand your love of carve tops. I mainly build flat 'cause it sounds better In acoustics, anyway. Archtop acoustics always sound hollow and nasal to me. Pretty cool when amped up electric, though... the old Johnny B. Goode sort of thing.

Koa is certainly beautiful, but Hawaii isn't very big, so with its popularity these days, the prices aren't surprising.

Osage is definitely a cool wood, and most of the trees are too small and/or gnarly for acoustics, so I'm sure there's a lot around that could be put to good use in electrics. One interesting thing about it is how much it darkens with UV exposure. I've had a test running for the past few months, with a piece sitting in a west facing window so it gets scorched every evening. These two pieces are from the exact same board... as you can see by the matching grain. It's darkened all the way through the .100" or so thickness. Could be fun to expose different areas of the guitar for different lengths of time, to create a true sunburst Of course, it might eventually even out to all dark... but only if you leave it in direct sunlight a lot.


You could also try sycamore. Grows all over around here, and has nice ray fleck pattern that would be interesting on a carve top, and I think pretty frequently spalted for extra coolness (I've loved spalting since the first time I saw it)

Sweetgum (or as I like to call it, spike-ball tree) is another nice looking local wood, although pretty rare to come by. I have a few acoustic sets from this guy, and he may have more that could be cut thicker for carve tops: http://www.superiortonewood.com

Myrtle can have some very nice color and figure, and not too terribly expensive.

Tons of good woods out there. I don't think you're lost in the past... you're lost in the future, where people aren't so set on using "traditional" woods

I feel your pain...

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Perhaps you could learn to veneer curved surfaces. There are a lot of beautiful pieces of veneer "off fall" that sell for cents on the dollar.
Gluing curved surfaces would provide a bit of a challenge and keep things interesting for you.

I'm pretty tight with money, just asked my love ones.

IMO, you have to spend either a lot of money or time to obtain special wood.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Yes, the woods in short supply and high demand are expensive and take some time and effort to get, but there are plenty of good and cheap alternatives if you put in the time to find them. Avidore, shedua, and sapele are inexpensive and can have lots of interesting figure. Padauk is lovely, cheap, and readily available. Morado can be as striking as any rosewood for a much better price. Etc.

Mo has redbud , catalpa. pearwood , persimmon, boxwood, lilac, pecan, red elm, plum, apple, mulberry, cherry ,honey/black locust etc. a host of others, easily obtainable and cheap.

Has anyone tried the Red Gum.It kind of looks like browner ziricote. Who`s Mo

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Chris, I understand where you're coming from. You've reached a point where you are feeling the boundaries of the traditions and want to go beyond. This is normal!

I believe that its not just what materials that we have on hand but also what we do with them that stretches those boundaries. Sometimes using cheap materials gives us license to really let loose.

Does not Burr Oak grow in your area? Could be an option.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

Me too! Owie, Owie!!!

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

As I read this thread many hours later, I realize I should have called it a lament, rather than a rant. I meant to sound more.... mournful.

As for Zlurge - yes, wenge is splintery.

As for Clay - I have veneered in the past. You missed my point that I like to CARVE (and not just the top).

Ernie - I built once in catalpa. I like that stuff a lot!

James - Mo is Missouri.

Douglas - Yes! You get it! I am stretching my boundaries. I want to build out of my comfort zone.

I want to build using a zero fret. I want to build more of the hardware from wood - not metal (I am a retired tool & die maker. Working with metal is second nature to me).

Since I mostly built on spec - I never developed a signature peghead as most luthiers do. It still doesn't interest me, as I prefer to look at each guitar as a whole concept - not an art project with my trademark stuck on the end of it. I want to listen to the material, and let it tell me how it wants to be built... does that sound too spacey?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

It sounds like you've just seen too much wood.

The deal with electrics is, NOTHING is REALLY traditional anymore, companies like Alembic pretty much build out of whatever the heck they can find.

How much more unusual can you get than something like this?:


Trees are trees, they all basically grow the same, annular rings, medullary rays, sapwood/heartwood, xylem/phloem.

They all produce the same figures, quilt, spalt, flame, birdseye

They all sometimes grow burls instead of branches.

Even so, I'm amazed at the varieties of colors and attributes wood has.

So I'm just wondering, What do you expect? What CAN you expect?

My point is wood is wood, and I think you can do whatever you want and get as far out there with the design as you can and you'll be okay.

I guess what you're REALLY complaining about though, is the price, and not the variety.

If so, then yes, QUIT WHINING AND START BUILDING!

It is what it is.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Well Chris,
me hearin what you saying. Ain't no fun! And well the truth be known me been there before. Boredom and lethargy ain't fun! So me went to see this old guru who said "Go take a laxative and it will pass." Well me did and it did, but now its back again. What to say or do?


blessings
?adma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Well, Chris, it seems to me you've just got to become a wood scrounger. It's not all that hard to do. Our border rivalries notwithstanding (I'm from central Missouri), I do understand that Wichita is not surrounded by vast forests of diverse wood species. Nevertheless, you probably have old buildings being razed frequently in your close vicinity. You probably know of factories that have parts shipped in from Asia on pallets of various species. You probably have cabinet shops with lots of off-cuts in your close proximity. You probably have neighbors who need to cut down storm-damaged trees or tree limbs. You've just got to start looking all around you, man! It's easier for you and me than it is for our fellow members who live in the center of huge metro areas. You'll find lots of interesting wood (some of which you will never identify) if you just start scrounging. I've been doing it for decades. I'm not kidding.
Patrick

Hmm. You make a lot of sense, Patrick. The hunt begins!

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

i'm from the solid body school of "it doesn't matter what it is made of, and looks cooler painted anyway".....natural wood electrics look like old man guitars to me. frumpy, fuddy duddy, more-cash-than-i-know-what-to-do-with kinda vibe. guess i'm lucky

So you are not interested in building for the majority of the market that desires wood figure right now?

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I would do like a very, very famous Archtop builder does.... Yes.. Bendetto... The Knotty Pine archtop guy.... Check out his website.... He built an archtop using Shipworm eaten Spruce... and I have NO doubt it sounds wonderful.... Looks crazy, though....

Perhaps something like Taylor's "Pallet Guitar"....

Build some that are totally outlandish... Fun... Weird.....

This is the sort of wood you will have to poke around to find - as it's not really in high demand for "Guitar Stuff"... Most folks think of it as Defective and all - you know....

I built a 4-string Tenor out of Pallet wood and scrap dunnage I rummaged out of dumpsters.... CAME OUT GREAT!!!! That guitar lasted A TOTAL of 12 hours in the local music store and it was GONE!!! The guy absolutely fell in love with it for it's sound - but also for the Idea that it was completely salvaged and turned into something beautiful....

As an aside - the top was something like 8 or 10 pieces and the back was 12 or 16 pieces....

Thanks

I'm finishing up my 6th and 7th electric builds.
I used purchased Maple tops on the first two. Everything since is native and adapted local wood.
I began building with local stuff primarily for the cost savings.
My last three are completely local woods: Chinaberry, Mesquite, Pecan, Walnut, Sycamore.
There are many other species I have not tried yet: Ash, Bodarc, Elm, Paulownia, Willow, Oak, etc.
Of course, It seems like any stable wood can be used for electrics.
Here's a shot of Chinaberry / Pecan.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

If I was making electrics I would use found wood. I really like the guitars made by Michael Spalt of Spalt Instruments. He makes them out of old fence boards that have been graffitied and other found objects. If your bored go wild.

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Michael F Smith
Goat Rock Ukulele
http://goatrockukulele.com