Official Luthiers Forum!

I have a client wanting a sports team logo inlayed on his headstock. Is there any issue with copyright here? I am asking for educated answers, not guesses. Thanks.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

Get the sports team to pay for the advertising.

Shurely, some mutual co-promotion opportunity here...

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

Since it is a trademark, would it be "illegal" to inlay it on the guitar?

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

Short answer: yes. Whether anyone would care if they found out about a one-off is unknowable. Making logo guitars by the gross and selling them in the parking lot on game day would probably not be a real good idea.

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George :-)

My dad put a gold bucking horse (Wyoming's mascot) on a belt buckle. But be contacted the state about and they said that if you sold it would be a 7% tax hope it helps

If you do it yourself on your own guitar, it's not a problem. If you do it and sell it, it is. If you buy it, the person who sold it to youdid a no-no.

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Old growth, shmold growth!

I will be consulting a lawyer about this issue. But it got me thinking, so I called a tattoo parlor. They don't pay any sort of trademark fee. Inlay is essentially the tattoo of the guitar world. I wonder if there is a loop hole....

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

The loophole is tattoo artists don't give a $h!t, and they have plausible deniability. "Wasn't me, I didn't do that tattoo, somebody else did".

I guess the same could be true of inlay artists?

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Old growth, shmold growth!

Me, I would recommend another loother to the client, not because its a registered logo, but simply the esthetics don't spin my wheels But hey,there ain't no accounting for bad tastes.

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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As a former graphic designer I have the point out that what you're describing is textbook copyright infringement. That you're going to professionally benefit by incorporating another's intellectual property into your design (whether for financial gain or self promotion) without the copyright owner's permission is opening yourself up for a civil lawsuit and a $10,000 fine.

as he says.

hi kwakattak!

Talked to an attorney today. Yep- it's trademark infringement. Now I am talking with the NFL. We'll see how this goes.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

Just be glad you're not dealing with the NCAA.

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PMoMC

let us know what the licensing fee is if you can? it would be interesting.

Hopefully they grant you permission to use the logo without a fee.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I'm quite sure that is what the NFL will do. They will probably deliver the news via unicorn. . .

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

My wife owned a bakery for a while and often decorated cakes (at the request of customers) with the likenesses of Disney characters, etc. Yes, she paid a (small) fee each time, and yes she was audited from time. As Filippo points out, the big dogs guard their house with notable vigor. The issue is dilution if they do not defend their rights to their property. In other words, if they let some people use the mark without permission, the value of the association of the mark with their goods (or services) becomes lessened. After a while, the mark can revert to the public domain.

My point is there usually is a mechanism in place for you to be able to use some trademarks in approved fashion for a usually nominal fee. Kudos for you talking to an IP professional and doing the right thing. It ain't worth it to try to outfox folks who have been doing this for a long time. It's better to get a good night's sleep.

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"Building guitars looks hard, but it's actually much harder than it looks." Tom Buck

So suppose I was asked to inlay "Taylor" onto a headstock, because the customer's last name is Taylor, then what? If it's not in the same font as Taylor is it ok? Or is the mere mention of Taylor on any headstock a violation?

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

So what about the Martin headstock shape? I heard Martin has started protecting them but some argue that the shape is far too generic. What's the word on that?

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Is..is that sarcasm?

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

No. Aaaabsolutely not!

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Heard back from the NFL. Here is what they said:

"Thank you for your interest in the National Football League and the Indianapolis Colts. As you may know, NFL Properties LLC (“NFLP”) represents the National Football League (“NFL”) and its thirty-two Member Clubs for the licensing and protection of their names, logos, symbols, uniform designs, and other identifying marks (the “NFL Marks”).

Unfortunately, we cannot grant you the permission you seek. Absent a formal NFL licensing or business relationship, NFL Marks or materials may not be used in a way that suggests that your product (a) has the endorsement of, (b) is otherwise sponsored or licensed by, or (c) is affiliated with, the NFL or any of its Member Clubs. The NFL has licensing relationships with various companies, including other consumer product companies, and must respect the rights granted to these partners.

We hope that this information is helpful to you. We appreciate your time, consideration, and enthusiasm."

Pretty much what I expected. My client understand and we are going to move in another direction.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

Good on you for doing the due diligence.

If I've learned one thing in law school so far, it's that you never know what they're going to say.

Generally true. But somehow, I was pretty sure about that one.

Regardless, major kudos to Chris for running things to ground. You certainly went above and beyond in an attempt to help your client. That's refreshing and will pay dividends overtime. I'm sure there's some other semi-tacky form of embellishment your client would find an acceptable replacement. (Sorry - I just couldn't help myself ).

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Aaron Craig

LOL, yes, but there's a big difference between having an opinion supported what seems like somewhat valid reasoning, and an absolute guarantee.