Official Luthiers Forum!

Does anyone here use the LMI neck tenon jig? I'm thinking about giving that a try (mortise and tenon) but was hoping for some feedback. The heel block was pre-cut for us at Vermont Instruments so I'm trying to figure out how to approach this part of the building process.

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Registered Architect (Texas, New York)
LEED AP

I made my own, with frustrating results thus far. I'm sure it can be done, I just didn't execute it well enough to get a good tight fit right out of the template.

I thought about building one from plans but ordered Jon Simpson's which comes with both Dovetail and MT joint templates http://www.jsimpsonguitars.com/neckjig_sales.html
It has worked well for me for the last few years, by the time I bought all the materials and the time to build, it was a great investment.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

Thanks, Fred! That's perfect - just what I was looking for and it keeps me from having to build the durn jig myself!

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Registered Architect (Texas, New York)
LEED AP

What? It must be a kinder gentler George, he made us cut our own! First we cut the tenon on the table saw, which is pretty straightforward, and not especially critical if you follow the next step and then cut the mortise to fit. Then we just took the heel block, set the table saw blade a little higher than the the mortise depth on, and set up the rip fence so that the first slot was down the center of the block. Then we edged the rip fence in a little less than a blade-kerf width, cut the block in one direction, then flipped it and cut it in the other direction, so that the cut stayed centered. We repeated that process until close to the slot width we wanted, then kept going, but then edging the fence in in in tiny increments until the slot was just the right width for the tenon to be snug. It really only takes a few minutes once you get the hang of it, and no jig necessary!

yep. Works for truss rod slots and other stuff too.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Not cheap, but buy it once and you're done for life. Quite simply the best.
http://luthiertool.com/neck%20angle.html
-C

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Freeborn Guitars
and home of BeauGuard©

Fred, is that the one that was reviewed in American Lutherie a few months back? I'm seriously considering buying one. Seems like a pretty good deal for the cost.

Ken

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

The one I have is several years old and he has improved it some. My only change would be to make the templates adjustable so the length of the dovetail could be changed to match different body depths, but it works fine as it is. Jon is real great to deal with and is helpful if you have questions.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

The new version allows for adjustments of the templates. My only problem when I used mine (the one time so far) was getting the templates to line up on center. I made a boneheaded measurement error so I can’t blame the jig, but I'd like a better approach for squaring the template with the neck and making sure the template is on center.

If I had to do it all again, I might go ahead and make my own based on Robbie O'Brian's plans and video using the LMI templates. Of course that would have required me to build a jig instead of working on the guitar.

I made my own version of the Simpson jig a while ago & love it. The "table" is basically slotted, so the template is captured on center but can adjust for tenon depth. (The trussrod slot keeps the neck blank aligned & on center with the template.)
Here's a topside pic.

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Dave
Milton, ON

I picked up this jig off of eBay and it's been great!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUTHIERS-Neck-Jig-for-Acoustic-Guitar-Construction-/280926451367?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item41688576a7#ht_1317wt_922

Rob

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Rob Flindall
Flindall Guitars
http://www.flindallguitars.com
https://www.facebook.com/FlindallGuitars

Dave,

That is exactly what I was thinking of doing to my Simpson jig. One day I might look into converting mine.

[quote="Jag"] picked up this jig off of eBay and it's been great!http://www.ebay.com/itm/LUTHIERS-Neck-Jig-for-Acoustic-Guitar-Construction-/280926451367?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item41688576a7#ht_1317wt_922[/quote
Rob,

That is a link to the Simpson jig. It is a good jig, I just need to use it some more to get the details down.

I am using a 3/4" mortise and tenon joint with maple reinforcements on the tenon and cross dowels. I have been thinking about the Collings design, using dovetail templates cut with a straight bit, hardwood dowel insert and insert nuts. Are there any benefits of having the larger tenon? Would this design make it much more difficult to perfect the neck joint?

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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

That's true, & give Paul full credit. I just found his "tabletop" too cumbersome .....it's HUGE. I thought if I was going to build one, it needed to be more manageable.

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Dave
Milton, ON

Where do I find the plans for this jig , are they in the classifieds section ?

And if that is so do I pay my $11.88 to go and see a description of what they are and how much they are ?

regards Rob

PM Lance to see if they have anymore available from the last printing. There isn’t a current sale going on in the classifieds section.

If Lance doesn't have any, you can also contact Robbie O'Brien http://www.obrienguitars.com/ or send him a PM through this site.

He sends you the plans in PDF format & you can buy the routing templates from LMI or make your own.

He also has assembly videos.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Robbie's plans lack some crucial measurements, and his design doesn't address a number of common features. Just to call a few out, he has you cut out a 2.5 wide opening for the body?tenon or dovetail. The problem here is that if you have a cutaway you're only going to have .125" of body resting on this opening on the cutaway side of your body. A more prudent opening would be to make it wide enough for the dovetail of a reasonable depth, and taper the opening accordingly. This way you have the bottom of the opening supporting the body as it is in the clamp.

He neglects to recess the tee-nuts for the templates for the body, consequently, the tee nuts and bolts end up against the body. The lack of the center finder on the body clamp is another problem. Just because the centerline of your dovetail or mortise is centered within the template doesn't mean that the body itself is aligned with that centerline. Consequently, you can end up with the dovetail or mortise angles off the centerline of the body. Another problem is that it assumes that guitars are built within 90° angle between the top and the sign with the neck joints. A better solution would be to cut matching 1.5 degree angled cuts on the body clamp top edge as well as the top of the fixture to have so that when the body is clamped it sits flush against the client and against the template.

Guitar backs are both arched and tapered yet his design uses a 2 x 4 uncompensated for this reality. A better solution would be to arch and taper the body clamp according to the relative taper of the guitars that people generally build.

In his video, his overall lack of attention to exacting cuts and alignment is part of the problem.

David,

Is there a jig or plan that you recommend?

I bought the plans & templates for Robbie's but haven't built it yet. I'd like to get it right the first time.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

I can't get into specifics, or when it will be completed, but a couple of us are getting together to try and put a comprehensive design for a relatively universal jig that will address a number of these issues and be built to accommodate what most people are building, mainly traditional guitars. I think it's fair to say that this kind of jig either being marketed to the general guitar making community or the hobbyist should derive from that approach. Modifications to accommodate special designs can be done by the individual builder. But trying to make this fixture more universal to accommodate everything is more problematic.

My general complaint goes mainly to Robby's video more so than the design although that is problematic. There doesn't seem to be an emphasis on trying to make this thing is absolutely accurate as humanly possible. The whole point with this thing is to try and take the work out of the process. By not making the jig accurate and introducing all kinds of error you only create more problems particularly for the hobbyist that doesn't have nearly the experience to foresee the issues that telegraph through the building process.

I just used my simpson jig for the first time. Because I used a guide bushing, the tenon was too large and the mortise a bit too small. ( I am going to make the mortise slot larger to accept the tenon size to account for the thickness of the collar on the bushing. ). As a result there was a lot more hand work to get it to go together. But the jig itself works really well.