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Has anyone tried deer antler as a nut material?

I tried it once a while ago. I am not skilled at cutting bone, but I found there to be too little bone and too much marrow to get a successful blank out of it.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
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David, like so many organic materials, its hardness and density will depend on the particular antler you are trying to use. I believe you'll find the hardest, most dense part near the tips of the antler tines. Conversely, nearer the base and especially in the core of the antler, you'll find it more porous. I've used antler for just about everything except instrument nuts--handles, buttons, beads, knife grips, drawer pulls, etc. I've seen it used in inlay, too. It polishes beautifully. If you cut a tip near the end of a tine, I think it would work just fine.

But there's a problem you need to keep in mind: In my home state (and I expect every state) it is illegal to sell any part of a wild game animal. Thus, you could experiment with antler on instruments for your own use, but you can't sell them legally. But if you ever wanted to sell an instrument, it would be a relatively simple matter to make a bone nut at that time. Or you might be able to buy antler material from farms that legally raise elk for meat.

How would they know if your deer antler nut came from a farm or a wild game? I doubt they will do a DNA test on it...

Seriously though, I have seen those horn material and I wonder if it's hard enough to be used as a nut. Inlaidartist on ebay always includes a bunch of horn guitar picks in every order, and they seem rather fragile and flakes easily. I think bones are far more durable.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
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A friend gave me a broken letter holder made of some type of horn.
I am thinking about using it for inlay, of some type.
I did make a couple of picks out of it.
I think horn wouldn't be as hard and slick as bone, so........
Give it a try anyway!

I got the idea seeing some carved antlers for sale at a craft shop. This make me wonder about the legality of these items. And what about the knife handles made from antler. Is this all coming from domestic deer? Antler is more like bone the horn which is more like fingernails. I would try horn for a nut.

This comes up about evry second year or so...EDIT*

horn and bone are hard and dense ...A1 for nuts ( although me do not advocate the use of nuts, much prefering a zero fret) Non the less

Antlers are not much more than compressed hair fibers... Ya you can fashion a nut from them but...but they do not conduct the energy from the sting into the neck as well as the denser bone.

Bone, horne = good
antlers = bad to the bone



blessings



*EDIT:Seams me messed up on this post .... so read the next three below it for the "Official" version of the bone and the horn.
I will intentionally leave this one up for the sole purpose of causing confusion in the ranks...

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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Wrong way round, antler is bone which grows from a skull pedicle and is the quickest growing mammalian bone. Whereas horn is keratin and other proteins (same sort of stuff as your fingernails, hair or a beetle carapace), rarely with a boney central core.

So antler good, horn not.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Padma, I think you said that backwards. Horn is similar to compressed hair and fingernails; antlers are bone. Though that (in and of itself), doesn't make one better or worse for nut material. Most of the antler will be spongy bone that lacks the density a good nut should have. I've not worked with horn, but I assume that there would be parts that are denser/harder (read more appropriate for nuts) than others. All that said, I also like the zero fret so a nut need only be up to the task of maintaining string spacing. For this application, you could use antler tips, horn, bone or a dense hardwood depending on the look you are after.

Edit: Oops, I got called away from my desk before I had a chance to submit. Sorry for the double post.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Bass ackwards eh?
Ya well perhaps,
like most things in me life
being dyslexicical and all that


Anyways,
any loofier worth their salt ain't gonna be reading, much less listening to any of me babblings.


blessings
Padma

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Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


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In MO, and I would say most states, you can sell specific parts of certain wild game (pelts, feathers, antlers, etc.). Generally, you need a bill of sale and specific info from the originator. So, for example, I can arrow a deer, tag it, use the antlers to make a nut, and provide the requisite info to the guitar's owner in the bill of sale. Look at regs relating to fur trade for your state. Pretty well established trade in most states, and, of course, regularly requires the sale of wild animal parts. Generally, there will be information regarding possession, transfer, and sale of other wild game parts discussed.

That said, poaching bucks for antlers to sell is growing in popularity. So, unless you know where your deer antler came from, buyer beware. From a practical enforcement standpoint though, no one will know the difference from unbleached cow bone without some expensive equipment.

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Aaron Craig

Todd: I loved your response. Very clever! Skittish around other instruments. That just makes me chuckle out loud!

Tai Fu: In my state, the wildlife cops would start by assuming it's wild animal material and they would confiscate it. It would be up to me to present a certificate that the antler was legally purchased from a commercial grower. I would, of course, have that certificate and it would transfer to the buyer. If I couldn't present said certificate, I'd have to go to court to get my instrument back. And if, indeed, it was wild animal material, I wouldn't get the instrument back. And I'd pay a heck of a fine, too. Unless I never tried to sell it in the first place. It's pretty much that simple, believe it or not.

Like I said initially, there would be nothing illegal about selling a guitar with a replacement bone nut, and simply GIVING the antler nut to the new buyer as a gift. But if you live where I live, you'd better be able to show that bone nut (or corian or whatever) on the guitar when the transaction took place.

Think of taxidermists. They are not selling mounted animals heads and skins. They specifically sell the mounting service, and nothing more. The owner of the animal trophy always remains the owner of that legally harvested animal.

That's just the way it is. And, truthfully, I have no problem with it. I don't think wild animal parts should be sold. Farm animals are a different matter. With farm animals, we each make our personal decision about buying them and their parts, or not buying, as the case may be. And as long as it's a personal decision, then all decisions are good.

Having said that big windy thing, I will now get off my soap box and say once again: Yes, you can sample some antler material, and you can find quite a bit of it that is very hard and dense and will make real nice nut blanks. Stay away from the part where it grows from the skull, because it is rich with veins and pores there. Look to the very tips. It is very dense and hard there. Some antlers harder than others. Just like ox bones.

The regulations seem kind of silly to me since deer shed their antlers and certainly don't have to be killed for them.

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Ken Franklin
clumsy yet persistent
https://www.kenfranklinukulele.com

Cphanna, in what state do you live? I find it very hard to believe that any US state makes the purchase or sale of any wild game or part thereof strictly illegal under all circumstances (ate any wild Salmon, crab, lobster, etc. lately or have you seen them on a menu in your state). And, taxidermists regularly offer stuffed animals that were once quite wild. Additionally, whether the wild animal part in question was given as a gift or sold, generally, doesn't affect one's duty to comply with regs relating to possession and transfer (normally, linked to tags or permits issued to a particular individual for the legal harvest of the animal in question).

Anyway, all the above seems to contemplate the killing of a deer for it's antlers, but since deer shed their antlers every year, there is an ample supply of sheds available that would make fine nut or saddle material without harm to any deer. You have to hit the timber in early spring to find them for yourself before mice and other critters eat them. Cabela's or Bass Pro might even pay you handsomely for a monster shed set. You can also find them in many pet or feed stores (at least you can in the Midwest; no shortage of antlers in these parts) because the consistency of the antler makes for a very good chew thing for large dogs (they don't splinter or break into choking-hazard-sized pieces).


Edit: Ken beat me to the shed point. Wish I could type faster on an iPad.

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Aaron Craig

I have set up quite a few guitars and used antler a time or two. It can vary in density and you have to rough it out of some oddball shapes. The smell is memorable also..........
I'll stick with bone.

Hi, again. I live in Missouri, and as I specified, the problem is with game animals, not farm animals. I really don't know about shed antlers. As I also specified, taxidermists sell their service. The animal to be mounted already belongs to the person who is having it mounted. I can assure you our conservation department is very picky about these kinds of details. Wild game dinners for fund raisers are another activity they watch closely. I've seen them question charities about this. As long as ticket money goes to the charity or whatever, there's no problem because the food isn't purchased that way. Bigger companies like Cabelas are obviously doing things legally. They have too much at stake to do otherwise. Little guys like you and me have to be aware of these things. too.

If you're curious enough, read page six of this file, near the end of the page: http://www.sos.mo.gov/adrules/csr/curre ... 3c10-9.pdf

Elsewhere, the law does, indeed specify that holders of captive game animals must provide dna samples. I'm telling you, these guys don't mess around with this stuff.

I'll say it one more time: If I had the right piece of antler available (I've got a box full in my basement) I wouldn't hesitate to make a guitar nut out of it. But I'm not selling the stuff.
Patrick

Cphanna, your view of the law on this topic in the state of Missouri is simply mistaken. The regs you refer to relate to the possession of captive wild game (live), not parts of harvested wild game. For a quick answer just go to the Missouri Department of Conservation's website and look at the hunting regulations, specifically those dealing with the possession, transfer, or sale of certain wild game parts. Antlers are specifically listed as a part that may be transferred and sold. I'm presently traveling and Westlaw is difficult to search on an iPad, but, if I remember, I can provide a specific citation later.

It is quite legal to sell certain wild game parts in Missouri. I grew up trapping coons, beavers, muskrats, etc. with friends and relatives who did and continue to sell them on the open market. Doing so is very legal. I continue to be an avid woodsman, though the practice of law has regularly kept me from sitting too long in a treestand for the last 5 years or so.

If you don't want to sell an antler or part thereof, that's fine. But for others who might want too, I suggest a close look to relevant regulations from your state's wildlife code.

Edit:
Here is a link to the MO Dept of Conservation website generally explaining the issue: http://mdc.mo.gov/hunting-trapping/regu ... g-wildlife

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Aaron Craig