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I've been researching harp guitars and I think I'm ready to give it shot. I have some nice quartered Sycamore, anyone ever hear of a Sycamore harp guitar? I know there's more to the overall sound of a guitar than the species of the back and sides, but can anyone give me some general impressions of sycamore. I'm guessing it's sound is more on the side of walnut? Maybe producing brighter tones, like maple, which should work with a bigger box? I'm using a Lutz top from Shane. Clinton

I would guess its properties are much closer to maple than to walnut. It is often a visually beautiful wood. I think it mostly depends on your goals and your personal tastes. I suggest you try it and report back with the results.

Sorry for all the photos...

I'm not sure what it will sound like but this may help in the looks dept. I'm about to finish a couple Weissenborn style guitars. One has quartersawn sycamore back and side paired with a western red cedar top. I purchased it from a local (Cleveland Ohio area) guy with a land and a portable mill. It fell on his property a few years ago and it's been drying since. I lucked out! If it sounds half as good as it looks I'll be more than pleased. I'll take better photos of the back if you would like. It has a few sessions of french polish on it now.

I say go for it. Good luck and take pictures!!!

Best,
_Mike

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_Mike Tracz
MCT Guitars
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Why not? Should make a fine harp guitar. Visually appealing, too. Post pictures when you get there!

I think that a harp guitar with a Shane Lutz top and Sycamore (or London Plane as we'd call it here in the UK) b/s will work very well visually and tonally for a harp guitar - I'm assuming you mean a hollow arm Dyer type. I'd say that your guess of walnut/maple spectrum is about right from the London Plane b/s guitars that I've played/heard.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

That's a nice looking instrument Mike! Dave, I was hoping you would chime in, given your experience with harp guitars. Yes, I'm designing a hollow arm harp guitar. One of my obstacles have been the sub string lengths. I didn't want to go with any strings larger than .070 because they won't fit in a normal guitar tuner, and drilling or reaming the holes does't sound wise. Clinton

Sub-bass string lengths or gauge? Not sure that there is any magic to the lengths (leastways, there is a lot of margin) since there are no frets. People do ream the posts. Then there are banjo tuners. And what about the tuners used on bass guitars?

Materials should be no different than for a regular guitar. What sounds good for a jumbo or dread should work well for a harp.

Mike

Mike! You lucky dog!
Allied got some nice sycamore,
and I designed a Kona type squareneck,
just so I can build one of sycamore.
I would love to find a set for a Veissey!

Gauges and lengths should run hand in hand. No? If you want each string to have similar tension. If you tune a normal bass E string down to C, then it's going to get floppy. I haven't decided on which tuning to use on the sub bass strings yet. Then there's the top bracing? Lots to consider....Clinton

I've only made around 12 guitars with Amer. sycamore backs and sides. The wood is much closer to mahogany in density, stiffness, and hardness than it is to hard maples. It soaks up glue and finish like a thirsty sponge and moves around a lot with humidity.

Personally, I've decided not to use it except for smaller, quieter guitars where its ability to bring some mellowness to the guitar can be useful. I don't think I'd use it for a highly-stressed instrument like a harp guitar. There's too much tension on the back and the length is so great that I'd fear excessive movement and distortion (of the wood, that is).

But maybe I'm being too conservative. It's certainly cool looking!

Rick,

I think you are right about the mahogany analogy - I was thinking more about the softer European maples rather than the harder American varieties. As for the length issue on harp guitars, the hollow arm "box" construction is very strong an rigid - as with the hollow arms of acoustic lap slide instruments. I'd certainly consider it as a candidate but as always it's going to depend on the individual pieces of wood in the hand.

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Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Clinton:

If you need longer sub-bass lengths you can always do what Michael Greenfield did on Andy McKee's harp guitar with the separate floating bridge:



The multi-scale approach is also helpful as the bridge continues to give longer sub-bass lengths. I did this on my last two - this Grand Concert sized one:



And on this Baritone harp guitar:

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Clinton, I agree. They should be roughly the same length, its just that there is, so far as I can tell, no magic formula. Now if there is a rule of thumb, I would LOVE to know it. Dave??

Mike

Mike,

Did you mean the same tension rather than the same length? For sub-bass strings having chosen the lowest note you want the string to play you want to be aiming for gauges and lengths that give you enough tension in the string to sound "right" - this will be different if you want to play purely acoustic or plugged in (plugged in you can go for lower tensions). I personally wouldn't go much below 20lbs tension per sub-bass string - but I'm playing unplugged. You can use string gauge tension calculators such as this one to work it all out then it's a case of trying it out.

_________________
Dave White
De Faoite Stringed Instruments
". . . the one thing a machine just can't do is give you character and personalities and sometimes that comes with flaws, but it always comes with humanity" Monty Don talking about hand weaving, "Mastercrafts", Weaving, BBC March 2010

Dave, I'm having trouble with my applett to the string tension calculator to work, however I will get some technical advise from one of my kids. They're better at this stuff then I, but that looks like something I can use. Thanks!

Rick, in your opinion, would walnut be a better candidate? Clinton

Dave, that is good advice. I was thinking it would be baselined off your lowest tuning. The 20 lbs is nice to know.

Mike