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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Tue Jun 29, 2010 11:31 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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The GREAT thing about Grizz is their shipping costs. I "obsessed" over the Jet and the Grizz 19". I also love their table saw (1023). The reason I chose the 18" Jet was I got an incredible deal at a regional repair center in Nashville (General Industrial) and I could pick up all of the tools I bought in one fell swoop (scratch & dent). Shipping was just the gas there and back. Got a bandsaw, table saw (all jet), and a drill press (PowerMatic) for something like $2000. It happened when Microsft Cashback was in full swing and they were offering 25-30% cashback. So I saved about $600. I ended up getting not high end, but midddle of the road tools. Yes, I could have used Grizz the same way with their online ebay store. And I almost did. But their drill press selection did nothing to amaze me (still doesn't).

The salad days of MS Cashback are over. And, like Todd says, obsessing over this is pointless. His reccomendations are excellent. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time, something that almost never happens to me. [:Y:]

I think Cashback is still available at 8%, but it is going away soon. If Rikon has an ebay store, you could take advantage of that. I know Grizz has an ebay store, and if you call them, they will put any tool you want on the site for you to buy. If you are savvy with bonus stacking, you can use mrrebates.com to add an additional 3% ebay deduction (making it 11%).

Mike


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 6:25 am 
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thanks for the advice. I am trying not to obsess too much, I am just unsure of what my needs will be in the future. Right now my needs are just a couple hundred sets a year. However I have a close friend that is interested in building cabinets and possibly learning to build guitars. He currently works in construction/remodeling. He has battled cancer and now his fiance has cancer. they are my age, just 30. I am by no means rich, and I don't want to end up with the wrong tool or regret not buying something more heavy duty. I'd like to work with my friend over the next few years and start a business, but if I have equipment fail, it is unlikely that I would be in a position to replace it after I leave Iraq. Here I have no bills, when I am stateside, it's another story all together.

Someone here gave me the following advice: figure out what your needs are and then buy equipment one level above your current needs. For me that would be a Laguna Lt 18 3000 (4HP), which is currently on sale for $2195.00 with free shipping and a free dust collector. Or for around $1300.00 I could get the 18" 2.5 HP Rikon. Either way it is a lot of money and an important decision, one that I can't afford to be wrong on whichever way that I elect to go. Another consideration is resale value. If I buy the Rikon and decide to upgrade in 2 or 3 years, how much value can I expect to get back? Certainly the Laguna exceeds my current needs, but in 2 to 3 years that will change if I get out of the Army like I am planning.

Anyways thanks to all who have participated in this discussion, it has been a big help.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 8:48 am 
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I suppose the best situation then is to purchase the Rikon and then simply upgrade the motor in due time if need be. I cannot afford the higher end Lagunas now or any time soon. I was under the impression that the Lt 1800 was built in Bulgaria and the higher end ones Italy or something of that nature.

We'll see if the Rikon goes on sale tomorrow as someone mentioned that it would. It would make perfect sense since the timing is absolutely perfect for a 4th of July sale, and the 14" has been on sale for the past month. Here's to hoping. I think I have arrived at my decision once again. idunno I always come back to the Rikon, so the Rikon it is....probably hahaha.

And thanks again for fielding all of my questions. I have also decided to revamp my crappy little bandsaw if I can do so at a reasonable price. Proper guides, a carbide blade and maybe a new (used) more powerful motor may do the trick to at least be able to cut through an inch of spruce (which it currently does not even with a new blade), cut curves or simply cut a relatively straight line of thin stock.

Have a good one,
Joey


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 1:57 pm 
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Koa
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I have read through most of this. Having had limited experience on 2.5 horse (minmax) and 4.5 horse (I believe) Laguna saws I can say that for me the extra HP made a huge difference in a clean resaw cut, especially with difficult (i.e. expensive!) woods. I agree that you can make do with most 14+" saws for lutherie work if you learn the quirks. I don't think you need a dedicated resaw and power feed but I also think there is no doubt that would give you the best repeatable and dependable results.

If I had $1000 or so to spend on a new bandsaw (in the sub 3 hp category) I would look for an older used saw. It would probably cost a bit under that and then you could spend on some maintenance. My dream saw is a 16" walker tuner with an upgraded hp motor. It seems like you are in a hurry to get a new saw, which I totally understand, and that especially since so many people here have experience with the Rikon saw that it is probably a good fit.

Have you looked around your area for possible help in resawing? There are many experienced cutters who will cut up a bunch of wood for you for usually very reasonable prices. They may also have the experience and other tools (10+ jointers for light passes between cuts etc....) which can make a big difference. I have made do this way with only a cheap 10" saw in my shop. It has not disrupted my building at all. Granted I am in a metropolitan area with many luthier friends to ask for help, but you never know who is out there.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Wed Jun 30, 2010 2:32 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Burton LeGeyt wrote:
They may also have the experience and other tools (10+ jointers for light passes between cuts etc....)


Excellent point!
I have an older ~8.5" Inca jointer which will just 'make do' on most boards. If you don't start with/maintain a flat surface, your results will not be so good.

John


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 Post subject: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:26 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Btw, I just got to thinking... Are all of these tools for the hobby of building guitars or for the making of a living?


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 12:46 am 
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Mike O'Melia wrote:
Btw, I just got to thinking... Are all of these tools for the hobby of building guitars or for the making of a living?


transitional. For now just a hobby. But in a few years when I get out of the military, making a living.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 5:01 am 
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verhoevenc wrote:
I just don't know why you guys, are so down on the Grizz,
The resaws I been gettin' are the mutha f'in' shizz.
The girls all be impressed by my 17 inch sweep,
5 back slices per inch, I could resaw in my sleep!
Gangsta Rap Chris


laughing6-hehe laughing6-hehe Shizz???......I'm rollin'.......

As an aside, this has to be the mother of all bandsaw threads......To that end......

I'll post this one more time....I can get repeatable cuts any size I want using this setup. I'm a major wood hound so it sees all kinds of stuff. Hasn't let me down yet and I don't have to keep my eye on it while it's running. The upper end Grizzly's will do the same thing...over and over again. Keep in mind finger dude (respectfully)...there are many people making a living on entry level 14 inch saws from home cheapo. They aren't resawing the big stuff like you will be but a living nonetheless. The Rikon and the 'Grizz' are fine saws with many people standing beside them. You have a little of what I call 'paralysis through analysis'. I know the lengthy discussion is because of where you are right now but you can get bogged down when the bees start flying around your head. That's the phrase I use when the confusion sets in....kinda like when a nagging girlfriend starts running her mouth and just won't shut up.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:07 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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http://huntsville.craigslist.org/tls/1819541758.html

Nice deal right here in Huntspatch Alabama

(I would get it if I had room)

If it is still available, and you want it, I could go get it for you. I think this would be an excellent starting point for you based on your intended use. And you can resell it for what you have in it.

Mike


Last edited by Mike OMelia on Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Thu Jul 01, 2010 11:09 am 
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Todd Stock wrote:
FWIW, the Rikon did not go on sale as of July 1st...but at $1314 delivered from Amazon, still a decent deal. If concerned about motors, buy a 3 hp Baldor or Leeson for about $400-$500...still about $400 under the Laguna 3000 price. As mentioned, used saws can be great bargains as well - especially if you can find a small business upgrading to automated machinery or closing it's doors as a result of the current economic depression.


Yes much to my disappointment this evening. I am still holding out hope for tomorrow as it is the 4th of July weekend, but back to shopping for a used model on IRS auctions and Craigslist. I have about a month before I actually need it. I was just hoping to end what is becoming 5 months of teetering with the $999.00 Rikon. With that price, the decision is made for me.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 12:54 pm 
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Well I am happy to inform you all that after this lengthy discussion I have finally made the decision. After the Rikon did not go on sale and all the positive Grizzly reviews I've read about their higher end lines and their spectacular customer service, I decided to go with the slightly larger G0514X 3HP 19" Extreme series bandsaw which was on sale for a very reasonable price.

$1289.00 delivered

Specs:
Blade size: 1/8 to 1-1/2
weight: 383 lbs.
220 60Mhz 16A prewired
Max cutting height: 12"


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:45 pm 
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Koa
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Yup.....good deal. Glad you got this monkey off your back.

Chris

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 4:12 pm 
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Koa
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Filippo Morelli wrote:
fingerstyle1978 wrote:
... and all the positive Grizzly reviews I've read ...


C'mon it was Gangsta Rap Chris' post that pushed you over the edge. We know it. Admit it. [uncle]

Filippo



He just doesn't want to admit that a brotha' throwing gangsta signs and making funny sounds compelled him to spend 1300 bucks!! laughing6-hehe

[:Y:] Hey lookee....I just bumped this thread to 5 PAGES!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:22 pm 
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Chris aka Sniggly wrote:
Filippo Morelli wrote:
fingerstyle1978 wrote:
... and all the positive Grizzly reviews I've read ...


C'mon it was Gangsta Rap Chris' post that pushed you over the edge. We know it. Admit it. [uncle]

Filippo



He just doesn't want to admit that a brotha' throwing gangsta signs and making funny sounds compelled him to spend 1300 bucks!! laughing6-hehe

[:Y:] Hey lookee....I just bumped this thread to 5 PAGES!!!!!


Yo homie, you know I can't resist dem mad fly 19" spinnerz that the girlies be jockin my shizzle. Chris be comin correct.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Sun Jul 04, 2010 9:15 am 
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Todd Stock wrote:
We going to have this discussion or not?


Which are we discussing?
A. Bandsaw blades
B. My purchase of the Grizzly 19" G0514 3HP 220V 1PH
C. the insinuation that gangster rap made by rock the Grizzeeyo


A. Blade discussion? I will be using the Grizzly blade as long as it lasts. I will not cutting any expensive woods just yet, nor do I plan on doing so anytime soon. the supplied blade should work for sawing up a couple mahogany necks and several sets of Black Walnut. I plan to initially use a lot of walnut/white oak/walnut neck laminations if my first guitar ends up working out well. White oak is stiff and very stable but heavy, so I am hoping that the lamination with walnut will do a few things:
1. provide strength and stability as opposed to walnut alone
2. reduce weight as opposed to oak alone
3. look good

Anyways, back to the bandsaw blade discussion. Like I said I will be using the Grizz blades until they ware out while honing my skillz. By Christmas I will have a Lennox carbon tipped 1-1/4" ready to replace the current blade. My small POS bandsaw is going to receive an overhaul. When done it will have a 1/8" blade on it for curvy cuts.

I'd appreciate any advice on cheaper blades of equal (or close) quality to the carbon tipped Lennox's of the world.


B. Same price as a Rikon delivered with an extra half a horse. I have delayed shipment until late August when I am surely back from Iraq. In the meantime I have considered canceling the order to upgrade (another 100 bucks) to the G0514x2 which comes with a nicer re-saw fence (not sure how much nicer) and a cast iron trunnion. I don't care about not having a break. I play loud music in the shop which quickly drowns it out.


Both saws feature:
* Motor: 3 HP, 220V, single-phase, TEFC capacitor start induction, 60 Hz
* RPM: 1725
* Precision-ground cast iron table
* Table size: 26-3/4" x 19" x 1-1/2" thick
* Floor to table height: 37-1/2"
* Cutting capacity/throat: 18-1/4"
* Maximum cutting height: 12"
* Blade size: 143" long
* Blade sizes available: 1/8" - 1-1/4"
* 2 Blade speeds: 1700, 3500 FPM
* Wheels: fully balanced cast iron with polyurethane tires
* Wheel covers: pre-formed, hinged steel
* Blade guides: dual ball bearing with full enclosure protection
* Bearings: sealed and permanently lubricated
* Overall size: 76" H x 36" W x 32" D
* Approximate shipping weight: 480 lbs.

G0514x2 19" $1389 delivered
FEATURES:


* Blade tension indicator
* Micro adjusting geared table tilting mechanism
* Height scale measurement
* Fence with scale and magnifying window
* Deluxe cast iron fence with extruded aluminum re-saw fence
* Miter gauge
* 4" dust port x 2
* Table tilt 5° left, 45° right
* Quick change blade release/tensioning
* Rack and Pinion upper guide adjustment
* Foot brake
* Cast iron trunnion
* Includes 3/4" blade

G0514 19" $1289 delivered
Features:


* Blade tension indicator
* Micro adjusting gear table
* Height scale measurement
* Fence with scale and magnifying window
* Deluxe extruded aluminum fence
* Miter gauge
* 4" dust port x 2
* Table tilt: 10 deg. left, 45 deg. Right
* Quick change blade release/tensioning
* Rack and pinion upper guide adjustment
* Includes 3/4" blade



C. Gangster rap made me do it. My first upgrade for whichever Grizz I end up with is going to be a mobility rack that sits on chrome spinners.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 10:38 am 
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Order cancelled. G0514x2 ordered.


bliss I think I am finally done with this issue bliss and I feel good about the purchase.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 8:33 pm 
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SCGib68 wrote:
Call Louis Iturra, bandsaw blade guru. He'll not only steer you to the right blade, he'll give you a hell of a price on it too!
Iturra Design
1-866-883-8064
If you can get ahold of one of Louis's catalogs it is a education in itself on the many variables of bandsaws. I do alot of resawing so I bought the Shopfox 21" same as the Grizzly 21". 5hp motor and fast blade speed. For the average user a Delta 14" is a good choice just because it is a standard and there are all kinds of upgrades you can get for it. Guides, fences, etc. Louis has a section in his catalog about souping up a Delta to increase the blade speed for resawing by changing pulleys. You see them on Craig's list often. I have played with the idea of picking one up but do I have room for three bandsaws? :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:21 pm 
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Greenman wrote:
SCGib68 wrote:
Call Louis Iturra, bandsaw blade guru. He'll not only steer you to the right blade, he'll give you a hell of a price on it too!
Iturra Design
1-866-883-8064
If you can get ahold of one of Louis's catalogs it is a education in itself on the many variables of bandsaws. I do alot of resawing so I bought the Shopfox 21" same as the Grizzly 21". 5hp motor and fast blade speed. For the average user a Delta 14" is a good choice just because it is a standard and there are all kinds of upgrades you can get for it. Guides, fences, etc. Louis has a section in his catalog about souping up a Delta to increase the blade speed for resawing by changing pulleys. You see them on Craig's list often. I have played with the idea of picking one up but do I have room for three bandsaws? :mrgreen:


Does anyone!?!?! Hahaha. I just got my third, but I don't get it until Christmas! Doesn't really count though, because right now I only use one. Not sure if it's worth pouring any money into this piece of junk 14" Reliant I have. Needs new guides and a new blade. I suppose it's my last priority.

http://www.amazon.com/Proxxon-37172-MBS-Micro-Band/dp/B001D6PJAQ

I found one that was reconditioned for $174.00 + 12.00 shipping. Now that's a deal. bliss I got this little guy so that I can build rosettes while down here on base in MD. Once I have a good amount of rosettes I can move to purfling and at least get it roughed out.


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 Post subject: Re: Bandsaws
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:21 pm 
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Here is a decent read from

http://solowoodworker.com/tools/resaw.html

Tuning and configuring your bandsaw
to resaw wide boards or cut veneers

One use of a bandsaw is for cutting curves in relatively thin wood - sometimes called scroll work. Most any decent bandsaw, with a fairly narrow blade, will do a sufficient job. Of course, if you need to cut inside a "hole" or do very fine cuts with sharp turns, a real scroll saw works better, but is slower than a bandsaw, and doesn't handle thick wood.

Another use of a bandsaw is for rough cutting thick wood such as bowl blanks. A powerful saw with a sturdy, tilting table is a great help, but more important is a special blade. The blanks are often cut in green wood, so a thicker blade, with an even wider kerf, is required to keep the wet sawdust cleared.

In my opinion, the challenging bandsaw job is resawing... cutting thin pieces off wide boards, often dry hardwood. The target may be a piece of wood 3/8 inch thick (such as the side of a small drawer), or it may be a veneer, well under 1/8 inch thick.
How thick?

If you choose to cut a board 1/4 inch thick, to "veneer" onto another structure, sooner or later it will likely separate, warp, or split. The differences in expansion and contraction of different types of wood, over the seasons, creates huge internal stresses that will try to pull the wood apart. On the other hand, if the decorative outer wood is very thin (the nominal thickness of much commercial veneer is 1/42 inch - .024"), the wood doesn't have strength to move sideways (properly glued down, it follows the movement of the underlying material), and expansion or contraction becomes a minute change in thickness.

There is no magic thickness, above which, you always have a problem, and below which you are always safe. As a rough guideline, if your saw cuts roughly, then start with 1/8 inch (.125") and by the time you have sanded the "veneer" smooth, you should be fine. If you can cut very smooth veneers (requiring minimal sanding), 1/16 inch (.063") is a reasonable starting point, although I occasionally cut veneer much thinner than that. Since a resaw kerf is often .05" to .06" (roughly 1/16 inch) this means you could get 6 or more veneers out of a 3/4 inch thick board.
Where is the fence?

I am often asked whether the "product" cut from a block of wood should be left of the blade (along the fence) or right of the blade, with the stock along the fence. There are arguments for both. If the product is left of the blade, the fence does not have to be adjusted for each subsequent cut, but the work has to be smooth enough to rest firmly against the fence for each cut. With a cheap bandsaw that produced imperfect surfaces, I had to joint the stock before each cut (but I liked the approach since it gave me one "perfect" surface for each piece cut). With my good bandsaw, the cut is good enough that I typically cut 3-4 or more veneers before jointing the stock again. Those who argue that the veneer should be on the right and fall away from the stock as it is cut get good results too, and continue to have the same smooth side of the stock against the fence, but the fence has to be adjusted for each cut.
Factors for success

As we are cutting through a very thick (tall) piece, our success is determined by many factors.

* A tall stable fence to keep the wood steady (Be sure your work piece is flat and smooth, so it rides well against the table and fence). The "point" fences (a vertical bar aligned with the tip of the teeth) allows you to follow a line on the edge of the board if your saw wanders, but a well-tuned saw allows you to use a flat fence, and cut thinner, smoother pieces. The accuracy with the point fence is determined by your ability to follow a line, compensating for the wander of the cut, rather than the flatness of the fence.
* Feather boards or operator(s) to keep the wood tight against the fence ahead of the blade. With difficult cuts I sometimes get someone to help hold the wood against the fence.
* Steady feed rate. If you will be doing a lot of resawing, consider a power feeder. People who use a power feeder on a bandsaw swear by them.
* A blade that does not deflect or wander sideways
o If the blade is pushed to the rear (while cutting), it will tighten the rear of the band, and reduce the tension on the front (teeth) thus making it easier for the teeth to wander. A wide blade helps to resist deflection to the rear, thus reducing the sideways deflection of the teeth.
o High blade tension to minimize deflection
o Few teeth with large gullets to clear the sawdust out - when resawing you may be producing more than 10 times as much sawdust as a normal cut, and if the kerf is packed full of sawdust, the blade will seek an easier path
* Good bandsaw tuning
o The side-guides should not touch the blade constantly (to prevent heat build up), but should be VERY close to prevent deflection (if a folded piece of paper fits between the blade and guide, it is too far away). Mine act "nervous" - with the saw running but not cutting, they are so close to the blade that they twitch from moving air and dust. Front-to-back, the side guides should be close to the gullet since that is the part that wants to wander. Euro guides, roller guides, ceramic guides, cool blocks, wood blocks all work fine, even though everybody has a favorite.
o The thrust bearing should only touch the blade during the maximum cut, but should be close enough to prevent the gullet and teeth from touching the side guides when they are pushed to the rear by the force of the cut. Note that if the blade is poorly adjusted, and runs hard against the thrust bearing, there will be heat and stress on the gullet, leading to cracks in the gullet, and eventually a broken blade.
o The fence should be adjusted parallel to the natural cut angle of the blade. New blades normally will cut "straight ahead" but as the blade wears, and the teeth are bent by the tires, the direction the blade cuts naturally is at a slight angle. Draw a line about an inch from the edge of a board, and cut it without using the fence. When you are "half" way through and are pushing straight into the blade, stop, and notice the angle of the board - this is the natural cutting angle of the blade. The fence should be adjusted to that angle.
o With crown tires, the blade should be on the center of the wheel. With flat tires, the teeth of a wide blade hang off the front edge of the wheel. It doesn't make sense to try to have the teeth of a very narrow blade hang off the tires, so many users with flat tires put the back of a narrow blade at the same place the back of a wide blade rides, to simplify adjustment of the guides.
o Smooth tires and balanced wheels. The surface of the wheels must be absolutely smooth and stable when spun without a blade (if the tire has a bump, sand it out). If the wheel is out of balance, the same point will always be at the bottom when the wheel stops - get it balanced.
* A sharp blade - only expect a few hours use (as low as 2, never more than 5-10 hours) from a normal steel blade, and normal blades are generally not worth sharpening. A carbide tip blade is a good investment if you will be using it a lot, and have a saw that can provide good tension and alignment. Some carbide blades can be sharpened, but I have had reason to replace carbide blades before they need to be sharpened.
* Blade lubrication - you don't need (or want) a wet blade like metal cutting bandsaws or some sawmills use, but most vendors recommend lubricating the blade. Some folks spray some cooking "Pam" on a rag, and wipe it on the blade while moving it backwards by hand. This apparently does not leave enough residue on the wood to interfere with any finish. I wax my blade with furniture paste wax, similar to the other metal woodworking surfaces (the cast iron tables).
* The back edge of some blades are rough, and can be "tuned" or rounded slightly with a sharpening stone (some people buy a special "stone on a stick"). If you have a Lenox carbide blade, do not use a stone... the blade is factory rounded in the back, and Lenox considers the grinding a "modification" of the product, potentially voiding any warranty.

Choice of blades

For resawing, the width of the blade should be close to the maximum the bandsaw will handle. A smooth cut is very important, so an investment in a carbide tip blade is worthwhile. To use the maximum size, every guide, adjustment, and clearance may have to be in a specific "perfect" position, so some argue that one size less than the max is ideal, so adjustment is easier.

The number of teeth per inch (tpi) depends on how fast you are sawing and the thickness of your workpiece, but for starters, consider 3 tpi a large number for resawing. My current favorite blade (1 inch Lenox Woodmaster CT) has 1.3 tpi, .035 inches thick, kerf .051 inches. The Woodmaster CT only comes in 1 inch, 2 inch, etc. Another favorite is the Lenox TriMaster which alternates between 2 and 3 teeth per inch, .035 thick, kerf .065, and comes in a wide choice of widths including 1 inch. The TriMaster has more teeth, with larger pieces of carbide for each tooth, so costs proportionally more than a Woodmaster CT. A blade wider than 1 inch is theoretically better, but the readily available wider blades are also much thicker, so I only use 1 inch even though my bandsaw will support an even wider blade.

If you are sawing wet (green) wood, such as milling lumber or cutting bowl blanks, you need a wider kerf (the wet sawdust expands) and perhaps a thicker blade. None of the carbide blades I have seen are suitable for cutting green wood. Of course, for bowl blanks you will be cutting curves, and therefore want a narrower blade as well. Many people use a 3/8 or 1/2 inch wide blade for bowl blanks, in a special "model" oriented to green wood.

The "Wood Slicer" (from Highland Hardware), also sold as the "Bladerunner" (by Louis Iturra) has a cult following for resawing dry hardwood. It is a very thin blade (.022 inch, .03 kerf) which removes less wood, variable tooth pitch which runs quieter, takes less tension (20,000 psi - see below), and requires less power. With less metal doing the cutting, it doesn't last as long, but it is far less expensive than a carbide tip blade, and reportedly gives very smooth cuts.

My favorite source for Lenox carbide tip blades is Industrial Blade - excellent service and the best prices I have found. For non-carbide blades consider the highly regarded Timberwolf blades. They are designed to operate with a lower tension, which can be an important factor with cheaper bandsaws. Suffolk Machinery has a website about Timberwolf blades, but they only take orders by telephone, with very knowledgeable operators, quick service, and low prices.
Blade Tension

The minimum tension for a safe cut is slightly more tension than just enough to make the blade stop fluttering, no matter what type of blade. Set the guides as far apart as possible, and increase the tension until the blade runs smoothly - or decrease the tension until the blade starts to flutter, then increase it slightly. (On many saws you have to change the alignment after changing the tension.) Timberwolf recommends that you use their blades at this minimum tension, while others often recommend a higher tension if your saw can handle it. The Bladerunner/Wood Slicer typically is run at 20,000 psi. The Lenox carbide blades are typically run between 22,000 and 30,000 psi - I shoot for about 25,000 psi.

There are three confusing factors involved in blade tension...

* Force is the pull of the spring - pounds. It is proportional to the amount the spring compresses until the spring's coil loops contact, so can be measured by the amount the end of the spring moves - the position of the end of the spring.
* Stress = Force divided by area of cross section - pounds per square inch. If a blade is twice as wide, then there must be twice as much force to get the same stress on the blade. If the blade is twice as thick, there must also be twice as much force. And, of course, twice as wide, twice as thick needs 4 times as much force.
* Strain is the amount the blade stretches, proportional to stress.

Stress (not force) is the key factor in blade tension. A low tension blade typically runs around 7,000 psi stress. High tension blades often run as high as 25-30,000 psi. Since it is related to the cross section area of the blade, the stress doesn't depend on the thickness or width of the blade.

Bandsaw tension gauges measure the compression of the spring (proportional to force), then indicate the appropriate setting for different blade widths. Most bandsaw gauges don't specify what thickness blade they are calibrated for, which is why they may be perfect for one blade, but are often misleading for other blades. My bandsaw's indicator says it is for a blade .019 inches thick (I have never had a blade that thin). Therefore, on my saw, if I use a half inch blade .035 inches thick, the tension indicator needs to be set for a one inch blade to get the recommended tension on the thicker half inch blade.

Measuring stress is done by measuring strain. The elasticity (Young's modulus, E) of most steel is 30 million psi. The elongation L is the Stress divided by E. If we have 30,000 psi stress on the blade, the blade will elongate (stretch) 30,000 / 30,000,000 or 1/1000 of it's length. If we measure over 10 inches, we should see 10/1000 or .01 inch stretch. If we see .005 inches elongation over 10 inches, we have 15,000 psi blade tension. Measuring over the longer distance is generally more accurate. Once you establish how far apart you can connect a measuring device to your blade, I suggest making a chart for each thousandths of an inch strain (stretch), and the corresponding stress. Measuring should be done with the blade at a constant (room) temperature... when the blade gets hot through use, it will expand - comparable to the amount it stretches from tension.

You can buy a bandsaw blade tension gauge (that really measures strain) for $135 to $350, or you can make one from a cheap ($7) dial indicator and a couple spring clamps. Usually there is a connector on the back of the dial indicator, such as this, that can be clamped to the blade.
4743
4742

An L or T shaped set of scrap wood allows the probe to be connected to the blade as far away as convenient (for greater accuracy), with whatever offset is required to align with the dial indicator. In my case I use a scrap of wood that allows the clamps to be 12 inches apart.

Therefore the chart for each thousandths of an inch stretch with the clamps 12 inches apart indicates 30,000,000 /1000 / 12 then .001 inches stretch = 2,500 psi blade tension, .002 inches stretch = 5000 psi, ... .009 inches stretch = 22,500 psi, .010 inches stretch - 25,000 psi, etc. That chart was taped to the side of my machine. (Remember that the dial indicator doesn't have to be set to zero... just note the difference as you tension the blade.)

Or you can do what the majority of bandsaw users do - just make some cuts and if you get good results, be happy and keep going.

This site (layout and contents) is ©2008, 2009 by Charles A. Plesums, 5702 Puccoon Cove, Austin Texas 78759-7177. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.
This material is free for personal use. You may not incorporate it in other sites or publications, in any form, without permission. We request that you inform us if you would like to link to all or part of this site. For other information call Charlie Plesums, 512-349-0740 or write to CPlesums@SoloWoodworker.com


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