Official Luthiers Forum!

For those of you who have been around the forum for a while, you may remember when I brought up the idea of an "ultimate binding jig":

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=40194&hilit=ultimate+binding+jig

Well, I have been using mine for a while now and I couldn't be happier with it. We are now on our third version of the jig and it is so stupid easy to use that I can't imagine doing it any other way.

Here are some pictures of the jig in its third and final version:







So the original design had a bit shorter base, plastic knobs, lock screws for the adjustment arm, and most importantly, no "zero bar". Also, I found out the hard way that a shear cut bit is a must.... The longer base gives you a bit more room for mounting your laminate trimmer so that the cord doesn't kink on your work bench. The new aluminum knobs are knurled for extra grip. And they look great! The lock screws that were used to tighten the adjustment arm on the original design were replace with nylon bushing that run in the channel and a single large aluminum knurled knob. So now you don't have to use any other tools to adjust the jig, just knobs. But the most important improvement is the "zero bar". I even thought about patenting it. Have you ever looked in to the process and cost of patenting.... oh boy. Anyway, the zero bar is where this jig is now "stupid easy" to use. Simply, the adjustment arm is unlocked with the knob on the back and pulled down with the bottom knob. Binding (and/or purfling) are placed between the adjustment arm and the zero bar, and then the arm is brought back up with the bottom knob until it contacts the binding. Once this setting is locked with the lock knob, you can pull out the material and make a test cut. From my tests and personal use, it is within a few thousandths every time.

So what do you think? Is it ultimate enough for you?

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Looks like something I wouldn't mind trying out. Height adjustment is on the router, right?

_________________
Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Yep! I use (and recommend) a ridgid laminate trimmer. It has a very sensitive and accurate height adjustment.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
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http://ensorguitars.com

An excellent looking tool Chris. I use what might be called a 'infant' version of the tool. The one made by Luthier Tools. I love it. I also use the ridgid laminate trimmer. Tried the pony but did not care for it.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

I'm having an alzheimer's moment, but I built a binding jig much like that and am having trouble using it. I just don't know how to hold the guitar! Sounds stupid, but with two rollers about 2" apart, I can't use the traditional sled. The little "L" shaped legs come up the side of the guitar and get in the way. It seems like to avoid tipping the hand held router I need to contact as much of the side as possible. I'm making arch tops with 2.5" - 3" sides, so if the "L" shaped legs holding the guitar come up the side even just 1", I got no room for the lower bearing. With the Williams jig I only need one bearing.

Of course, I can stop routing and skip over where the guitar is supported by the sled, but that seems too inefficient. So what am I missing? How do you hold the guitar to rout the binding channel?

Steve you know where I live, or better yet I'll bring mine to the meeting Sunday

Thanks, I'd like to take a look at it

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

The jig is held in a vise. The body is hand held. Personally I kneel for this operation. As long as the guitar makes contact with the three points of contact- the two parts of the dumbell and the plastic donut that sits around the router bit- the binding channel will be a cut as a true parallel to the sides. This results in even thickness binding when all is said and done.

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I like that! Nice work.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Chris,
I think I missed a change from the original drawing, in the thread above, to the current version. Did you abandon the original idea of having a different dumb bell for each thickness? I think 29 was mentioned in that original thread. Does the newest version use 1 dumb bell, that is close in size to the shear bit, and require you to hold the guitar body perpendicular to the adjustment arm. That is the only way that I can understand the zero bar, and inserting a piece of binding in it to get your channel thickness right. You may have covered this part somewhere else, but i missed it.

Any demo for set up? Like binding channel, than the purfling channel -- honestly having difficulty visualizing how quick precise adjustments are made. I understand this is not a hand held device.

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Chris, have you considered a video which shows the setup, adjustment & use?

Best,

Mike Franks
http://www.mjfranksguitars.com
http://www.facebook.com/mjfranksguitars

I'll jump because I have that version, you take out the supplied "dumbbell" place the centering rod in the V-block and center your router via the collet and tighten your router down. Replace the dumbbell, Then use the actual binding/purfling to set your depth of cut using the adjustment wheel lets call that X, use your routers depth of cut to set Y

Chris, I have made several fixtures similar to yours although the center support on mine is not adjustable. The channel size is regulated by the difference between the cutter and wheel diameter. I am wondering what advantage you have found in making the center support adjustable?
This style fixture is very simple and fast to use. It does take a bit of practice and holding your breath when doing the first guitar. After you get past that and get a feel for it they can't be beat.

Tim

The zero bar is handy!!! I have been using mine like that for years.

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Burton
http://www.legeytinstruments.com
Brookline, MA.

I like it too, very well done Chris!

So, when you set your X depth with your binding thickness, the dumb bell is offset from center over the router bit, by the thickness of the binding. That is what I was saying...you have to keep the guitar edge perpendicular to the adjustment arm to keep the X depth uniform. This is a change from the original design, where there were 29 different dumb bells, for different thickness bindings. This is not a problem, since that is the way I am accustomed to doing it. I was just hoping Chris could fill in the blanks on the change. I do remember that the dumb bells were about $8.50 each and it was running up the cost of the unit.

James,
You are right. I forgot to mention that one. Originally I had it designed to use interchangeable dumbells. But event the smallest size didn't allow me to go deep enough for some of my larger radial purfling, so I still had to pull the adjustment arm back- which was why it was designed that way. But in doing so, I found that it was not nearly as hard to get an even depth cut as I had imagined. Yes, the guitar needs to be at the top of the dumbell at all times, but it really isn't that hard. I normally take 3 or more passes at it just to makes sure I didn't miss anything. But I did that with all the other jigs I had used anyway.

I still have all 29 of the original dumbells, but they made the jig too expensive to produce and there is a better chance of loosing some parts. My machinist wasn't too heart broken when I told him he didn't have to make those anymore!

The new version uses a dumbell that is the exact same size as the router bit it comes with. This allows you to not only cut your binding/purfling channels, but to also flush trim your plates to the sides.

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I don't currently have a video, but I have some detailed instructions in a pdf form. If you are interested in seeing them, PM me your email address and I would be happy to send them along.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
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Tim,
The advantage of moving the arm is that you can cut to the exact size of your binding with ease. If you binding is .078, you can cut that exact size. You aren't limited by the size of the bearings/guides you are using.

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http://elevatelutherie.com
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I am having trouble imagining how it would work on a F style mando scroll or a cutaway on an archtop. Can it go around a sharp turn? My current set up only cuts about 3/4 of a scroll as the neck gets in the way. As an archtop guitar and mando builder I need to cut around curves with a curved top or back of varying thickness. If it can cut a channel around a scroll on a F style mando then it is the ultimate and I want one. Correct me if I am wrong but it looks like a tight turn might be tricky to cut with this device. It looks like a great tool for cutting a binding channel on a flat top guitar.

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http://www.cushmanguitars.com/.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Cush,
I am not sure how it would do with a super tight scroll. In fact, I have trouble imagining just about any power tool being able to deal with that tight of an area. As far as the arch on the top, I don't see it being a problem. The donut around the router bit only has about a 1/4" flat area that contacts the top.

One of the original issues some people had with the design is that it can't handle small bodies like ukuleles, electrics, mandolins, etc. I am currently working with my machinist to develop a solid guide that will solve this issue. I will post pictures once we get one made. This guide will be sold separately as an accessory.

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ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

For those having trouble envisioning how the zero bar works, I hope this clears it up:

_________________
ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com

Cutting around curves both inside and outside is always a challenge. The big advantage of this system is the guide is adjustable. That is a big advantage over guides that are fixed. But if you want to cut small bodies or in a tight space then a guide that is built in to the router bit is one way to get into that tight space. Maybe a guided bit could be used somehow in tight spots? Keeping it parallel might be a problem?

_________________
http://www.cushmanguitars.com/.

A man who carries a cat by the tail learns something he can learn in no other way.
Mark Twain

Chris

The zero bar is a good idea. I like the way it works and it looks like you can also use a smaller cutter with it rather than trying to match the offset between your wheels and cutter.
For me the fixed style works well but most likely because I have gone to making my binding and purfling a constant size which means just a few wheel sizes. Also if I need a special size it only takes a few minutes to make new wheels. Realize not everyone is set up to do that. It does mean that I can run the body over the fixture from any angle and have a constant size channel.
For someone who wants to change and experiment yours looks great and gives a lot of flexibility.
You've added some cool features since the first one you made.

Tim