Official Luthiers Forum!

Thanks Todd. I'm looking forward to it.

the plug on the breedlove bridge is a cover the bolt of the bridge doctor, which they install as a standard feature.

i've not built a pinless bridge, but on the good quality instruments i'm familiar with they seem to have no greater incidence of problems than pinned bridges. that includes one of my person guitars, an older taylor, with a pinless bridge and there has been zero prolems with it.

I'm just wondering, how do you all keep the bridge from wandering during the glueing process? When I glue my bridges I use the 2 outer holes for my LMI bridge clamp and this keeps it in position while I tighten the clamp - this would be impossible with a pinless bridge. Do you use shallow registration pins or just eyeball it?

I finally got some photos of another pinless bridge I made. This one is closer to the design I'm planning to use on the instruments I'm building now. I must admit, though, that when Frank Ford recently posted his dislike of pinless bridges for the reason that the ball end can shoot out and gouge the top when a string breaks, that was a "duh..." moment for me. I seem to be a rare case in that I virtually never break a string, and haven't done so yet on either of the two pinless bridge guitars I have made. Lacking the years of repair experience he has, I had never - duh - thought about that issue before. So, I'm having second thoughts about pinless bridges...

Anyway, here are the pics:











While I'm at it, I'll upload a few other shots of the guitar, since I know there are a few folks out there who like looking at guitars...

In the first pic below, you can see a couple of the odd features of this guitar. The body tapers toward the butt end rather than the neck end - an idea about ergonomics I had (which I've since seen that Sylvan does). I don't plan to do more like that; it doesn't make the guitar noticably more UNcomfortable to hold, but it doesn't make it better, either. Also, there is a side sound port in the lower bout. I put it there based on a somewhat vague idea about balancing something with regard to the air resonance, since the main soundhole is way up in the upper bout. In any case, this is, if I do say so myself (and others who have heard or played it agree), a really wonderful sounding guitar - a very smooth, rich, and luscious voice, very well balanced, and a strong bass/big sound despite its small size. With phosphor bronze strings it sounds a bit too dark to my ear, but with 80/20 bronze it really sings and has plenty of everything. It is very lightly braced, with an X braced back. Sorry, I don't have any pics of the bracing to upload. I made this guitar before I had a digital camera.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

todd, i want to say i like your use of the bone to give a durable face to the emergence side of the tie block. it is both very effective practically along with being very aesthetically pleasing, to me anyway!

have you ever thought of putting a similar face on in entry side to give a more durable surface for the balls to ride on? i would think that the bone should route into the same shape with no problems.

regardless, i like it.

very innovative, well done!!!

Thanks for taking the extra time to give us the additional bridge shots. Nice work. Very interesting guitar design, too, especially for a steel string. Pretty cool!

Thanks for the kind words, folks.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

using a slot in the string hole prevents the flying string ball, and flying pins. proper stinging technique also prevents flying pins.

[QUOTE=crazymanmichael]it is both very effective practically along with being very aesthetically pleasing, to me anyway!

have you ever thought of putting a similar face on in entry side to give a more durable surface for the balls to ride on? i would think that the bone should route into the same shape with no problems.
[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Michael. I like the look, too, although I wouldn't use two different kinds of bone again. The two pieces came from different sources and obviously don't match well in color or texture.

As for putting bone in the back end for the ball ends to seat against, it's an idea I've given some thought to and may consider further. My sense is that there will be very minimal wear there even over a period of many many years. Bridge plates can wear where the ball end seats, but I think there tends to be a lot more shifting around of the ball against the bridge plate during the installation and removal of strings. With a pinless bridge like this, the ball just seats in there with one quick, clean move, and that's it. It's not going to be rubbing around and chewing up wood. Where the strings go through the other side, though, you've got to pull the whole length of string through at a slight upward angle, and, with the wound strings, that's a bit like running a file across the lip of the hole. I'm still not sure the bone is really necessary even there, though, and it's an extra step I may decide not to do.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=ToddStock] Does the tie bar take the full upward load?[/QUOTE]

Todd, do my new photos answer your question?

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=CarltonM] Could you tell us a bit about your process? Do you drill the string channels at an angle?[/QUOTE]

Carlton, here's a quick rundown of the process:

1. Design the dang thing. Lots of drawing and figuring to get it all to work out. There's a back tilt of about 10 deg on the saddle - an added complication.

2. Square up and thickness the bridge blank.

3. Lay out the centerline and locations of the saddle slot and channel between the saddle and the "tie block".

4. Rout the saddle slot on the router table.

5. Rout the channel, also on the router table.

6. Glue in the tie block bone piece.

7. Lay out and drill the string holes at an upward angle of 5 deg from back to front, on the drill press with the bridge clamped to a fence and the drill press table tilted.

8. Rout the slot in the back where the ball ends will seat.

9. Scoop the wings. I think I did that with a sanding drum and fence on the drill press.

10. Cut out the outline of the bridge (it's been a rectangle till now).

11. Carve, shape, sand, and polish. There's a lot of finessing of the shape done by hand.

12. Somewhere during the last few steps, I ground a radius in the underside to match the radius of the guitar top, using a convex domed sanding board.

I think that's pretty much it, unless I left out a step.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

todd, i've had the taylor i referred to above for about 10 yrs, since shortly after i returned to the states. it has gone through periods of very heavy usage, and then some less heavy, an wear has not been a problem. but i was thinking more about the needs of the performing muso who might be changing strings for every gig, as many do. and their instruments do not always get the gentlest care. your use of the bone in this context seems so intuitively obvious(once one has seen it of course) i was amazed i had never seen it before.

and besides, it just looks great.

Here are a couple of shots of a design I've been using for about 4 years. This particular bridge has a saddle for each string, but I do it with a continuous saddle also. It's my version of Steve Klein's design. It's been around for about 30 years with no problems that I'm aware of.

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Jimmy Caldwell
http://www.caldwellguitars.com

Thats a neat looking bridge.  At the risk of sounding like an ignorant newbie, OOPS! I am one, what holds the ends in place.  Are they in a groove or on some sort of post?

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Waddy, there are small pins that the ball end of the string holds onto.

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Joe Breault
Merrimack, NH
Perpetual novice

Or you can just superglue 'em on there.

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Todd Rose
Ithaca, NY

https://www.dreamingrosesecobnb.com/todds-art-music

https://www.facebook.com/ToddRoseGuitars/

[QUOTE=Todd Rose]1. Design the dang thing.[/QUOTE]
I hear ya, man!

Thanks for the rundown Todd. Very helpful.