Official Luthiers Forum!

Just thought I'd check to see if anyone can give a reason to use Shellac flakes and mix yourself vs. buying the premixed French Polish.

Also, if mixing yourself is the way to go, what do you all use to measure out everything? Do you need a scale of some sort? (Maybe a kitchen scale).

I'm planning on heading to Woodcraft today after work to pick up some French Polish and would like your opinion as to which route I should go.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

I've had great results using Zinnsers Dewaxed Sanding Sealer. Check the date and buy the freshest stuff they have. I cut it in half with Everclear to make a 1# cut. This was also recommended by Michael Payne and Colin...nuff said.

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JJ
Napa, CA
http://www.DonohueGuitars.com

[QUOTE=Hesh1956] JJ's route is great.

I used flakes because I am one....... [/QUOTE]

uhh, Hesh that should be "are one"

I use flakes, and grind them up in a ten-dollar coffee/spice grinder from Target. They dissolve lots faster.

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now known around here as Pat Foster
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I bought a 250ml bottle of premixed, because I am not a flake, but a drip.   

For measuring, you can use a postal scale- they're fairly cheap these days. Most of the kitchen scales I've seen measure up to about 10 lbs or so, and the sensitivity is not that great.
Actually, if you buy your flakes in a measured package, you can just subdivide the package when you get it and estimate- the concentration of shellac is not that critical. Measure your alcohol by the size of the jar you are using, or use a kitchen measuring cup.
French polishing is black art, not science anyway!
Cheers

John

Blain-
If you're getting the Liberon 'French Polish' aka shellac from Woodcraft, that will be the easiest way to get going. (Qualasole is a bit different product.)
If you decide to use 'a lot' of shellac, mixing your own will be cheaper and more controllable. Also, you will not have to worry much about 'shelf life' issues which arise with dissolved shellac, since you can dissolve a small quantity when you need it.
John

Thanks everyone. This all helps a lot.

Ha. I can see myself now, taking all of my shellac flakes up to the post office to measure them on their scale that they have for puplic use 24/7.

John, Do you know if the Liberon is Dewaxed? I was looking at the HOCK brand from Woodcraft because it's advertised as dewaxed. Or do I even need dewaxed? I've seen that you can supposedly strain the wax through a coffe filter or cheese cloth if there is wax.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Blain,

It's best to use dewaxed. FYI, one method of dewaxing shellac that has wax is to leave it in a freezer overnite and let the wax settle to the bottom of the container. Then decant by pouring off the pure shellac layer on the top.

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

Blain,

Yes, you can de-wax shellac yourself, but why? Some of the more experienced folks use the less processed stuff for its available color, but there's a pretty useful color pallet in dewaxed flakes for us beginners. On the other hand, a lot of people have gotten good French polish results with Zinsser's Seal Coat. By all reports its claimed 3-year shelf life is true. Just check the date on the bottom of the can, and figure from there.

BTW, the flake-to-alcohol ratio is not critical (within reason), so save those post office trips for mail. I got a small food scale at a local supermarket for under ten dollars, and it works fine. You're not likely to ever use less than one ounce or more than one pound of flakes anyway. Ya don't need nuthin' fancy!

Cool Thanks for the tips.

I'll probably go with the HOCK brand from WoodCraft then so I don't have to bother with getting rid of the wax.

I'll check the local supermarket or Wal-Mart for a scale if I can find one. Otherwise, I may just eyeball it.

Hmm. Sounds like I may even need to give Zinsser's a try.

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Thanks,
Blain

http://www.ullrichguitar.com

"89.67% of all statistics are made up on the spot."

Here's a link for a digital scale from Harbor Freight currently on sale. These are handy for weighing ingrediants for hide glue too, as well as postal stuff.

Digital Scale

CrowDuck

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Chris Nielsen
Soquel, CA.

Blain -

I've been using the Hock flakes. They dissolve very thoroughly - there is very very little indication of any wax residue.

Jim

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I use Hock flakes from Woodcraft as well. The biggest reason is that I only make up about 8 fl oz at a time and I just use a glass kitchen measuring cup and the directions on the Hock label. That will be plenty close enough for shellac.

The Zinnser's (sp?) products are great too. I think that it is just what you get used to as everyone develops their own FP 'style', not only with product, but also with technique. That goes into John's 'black art' statement. There are a lot of good ways or paths to do this. Sometimes the hardest job is to just pick one and go!

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Jim Howell
Charlotte, NC

I don't want to post a brand new thread unless I have to, but I was just wondering if anyone thought it would be a good idea to try FP on a first guitar build??

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Time is a great teacher, but unfortunately it kills all its pupils - Louis Hector Berlioz

Chansen / C hansen / C. Hansen / Christian Hansen - not a handle.

Christian

[QUOTE=Chansen] I don't want to post a brand new thread unless I have to, but I was just wondering if anyone thought it would be a good idea to try FP on a first guitar build??
[/QUOTE]

Sure, why not?
It may not be 'flawless', but it should be fine. If you have your heart set on a mirror finish, it may not be the thing to start with.

The only caution would be to think about what alternative finish you would use if the FP didn't work out for you.
Lacquer (organic solvent type/nitro) will usually stick to shellac. I'm not sure about waterborne lacquers. The varnishes that are commonly available may not work over shellac- most of the specs seem to state this, and I had to scrape off a mess of goo when I tried this combo.

Cheers

John

I think it would be more than appropriate to use FP on your first. Assuming you are keeping it for yourself, why not use that as your practice finishing guitar, so that you aren't "learning" on some later guitar going to someone else?

Here's a peek at my first classical, first FP (now that the upload works again )
The finish job needs more final polishing, and I wish it hadn't been on a guitar going to someone else.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

I use Zinnser Seal Coat. I have some flakes but I've never gotten around to mixing them up. The Seal Coat has worked just fine. I do use Everclear for my alcohol and that seems to help.

I think that doing a French Polish on a first guitar is the best way to go. It may not be perfect when you are done, but two or three guitars later when you technique is better you can go back in clean it up. French polish is very fixable.