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 Post subject: How much water
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 1:31 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:43 am
Posts: 16
First name: David
Last Name: Scheckman
City: Plainfield
State: VT
Zip/Postal Code: 05667
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Hi, I’m about to bend sides for a couple of 00 sized guitars. I used the hot pipe with heat gun method for my initial attempts with no issues but built a Fox bender to use for this batch. Back and sides on these will be Osage orange for one and walnut for the other. I’m wondering how much water, how saturated the paper in the slat/paper/wood/paper/slat/blanket/slat sandwich should be for each species? Also use super soft 2 or no?
Thanks,
David


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 Post subject: Re: How much water
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 4:23 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 3:09 pm
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First name: Stephen
Last Name: Foss
State: Colorado
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
David,

I'm an amateur at this (13 guitars so far). Remembering my 3rd grade science class, water only gets to 212 degrees f before changing to vaper/steam; and that's if you are at sea level (I am at 5000 ft). Yes, I spritz the side with water, but only to dampen it. I also wrap the side in paper and then aluminum foil. My bending blanket thermometer says I start bending at around 230 degrees or so, but there's still steam coming out. I know that steam CAN be hotter than 212, but my thermometer isn't inside the paper/aluminum, so I'm measuring between the outside of the package and the blanket. I'm not doing this on a pipe but on a Fox-style bender from Mr. Hall of Bluescreek. When I did a venetian cutaway, I used super-soft and thinned that section of the side.

Now that I'm thinking about this, why would there still be steam at 250 degrees f? My only guess is that my paper/aluminum foil wrap is keeping the water/steam in, maybe increasing the pressure a bit? I'm curious.

I've had 100% success using this method, though I'll admit I only have a limited amount of experience and nothing more exotic than EIR. I've also bent walnut, white oak, and mahogany.

I hope this helps,

Steve

I hope this helps,

Steve


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 Post subject: Re: How much water
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 5:19 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:20 am
Posts: 4354
Just as an FYI water and steam under pressure can be over 1000 degrees fahrenheit. The temperature of water in a pressure cooker is about 250 F so it may not reach much above 212 F in a bending jig.


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 Post subject: Re: How much water
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 6:18 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 8:43 am
Posts: 1267
Don’t over think itZ sprits it good... I’ve also been doing what JHall does with winded and it seams to help.
So moisten it.., then wrap in foil, then from the bottom up/- slat, side, sale, blanket. Or in your case just a sandwich between the slats


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 Post subject: Re: How much water
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:08 pm 
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Walnut
Walnut

Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2018 11:43 am
Posts: 16
First name: David
Last Name: Scheckman
City: Plainfield
State: VT
Zip/Postal Code: 05667
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Really I’m after information specifically about these two woods , Osage orange and walnut. Whether they bend with better results with more or less moisture. Everything I’ve read, has expressed that different woods and figure do better with varying amounts of moisture, some respond better fully soaked and some with very little if any moisture.
Also trying to get an idea by those who use super soft or the like when it’s best to use or not use those aids.


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 Post subject: Re: How much water
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 7:56 pm 
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Koa
Koa
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Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:21 am
Posts: 1988
First name: Brad
Last Name: Combs
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
You won’t need a ton of water for walnut, just spritz the paper or spritz the side directly if you are using foil only. You won’t need SS with walnut.

This is all assuming a 0.070 - 0.075 thickness, which is where I have experience with it.

No experience with Osage Orange.


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 Post subject: Re: How much water
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 8:39 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
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Joined: Thu Feb 12, 2009 12:12 pm
Posts: 2987
First name: Bryan
Last Name: Bear
City: St. Louis
State: Mo
Country: USA
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Walnut is pretty easy to bend so don’t stress too much about that. The only Osage I have bent was bindings on the hot pipe. But I don’t remember how much heat and ware I ended up having success with. Sorry I can’t be more help.

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 Post subject: Re: How much water
PostPosted: Thu Jan 09, 2020 9:08 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:21 am
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Location: Central PA
First name: john
Last Name: hall
City: Hegins
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Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
both bend well
thickness should be about .075 in. Bend 250F for walnut 275F for the osage

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blues creek guitars
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 Post subject: Re: How much water
PostPosted: Fri Jan 10, 2020 11:05 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 4:02 am
Posts: 2366
Location: The Woodlands, Texas
First name: Barry
Last Name: Daniels
Pressure would not build up in the sandwich to any measurable degree. However, the water may evaporate more slowly just because it can't escape as quickly as if it was sitting out in the open.


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