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 Post subject: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:37 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

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Are "Art" guitars the ultimate "Wall hanger"? Do people play some of the outlandish creations that some luthiers create? When people pay over a certain amount isn't it viewed as more of a work of art and less as a musical instrument?


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:25 pm 
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First name: Jay
Last Name: De Rocher
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What, something like this maybe?

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Art harp guitar.jpg


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:58 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I personally don't have a problem with the object of a guitar being a sculpture. It's not for me but what evs. I do like more something like Kleppers dovetail guitar for example though, functional art object.


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:22 pm 
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A musical instrument can function as an object of art at the same time.
Dual identity, if you will.

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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:33 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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We call that Ort up here...
I'm waiting for someone to have the neck coming out of the soundhole, myself. :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:44 pm 
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Conceptually, I am fine with the idea of a guitar that is also either a unique sculpture piece (Fred Carlson) or a wooden canvas for extraordinary inlay work (Grit Laskin). Personally, I would not want to own one, and I don’t want to build one. I like the visual aspect of a guitar to be more subtle and familiar, which is also beautiful and no less a work of visual art. The ratio, or mix, of effort I would like to invest in the guitars I build is heavier on function and on making a familiar visual presentation look really well made, as opposed to stretching the boundaries of what a guitar looks like, or making a really great bit of visual art that happens to be part of a guitar. It’s cool to do either, but it’s just not my thing.



These users thanked the author doncaparker for the post (total 2): Bryan Bear (Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:25 pm) • J De Rocher (Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:07 pm)
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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:04 pm 
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First name: Dennis
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I find it offensive to treat a guitar built by a master luthier as a mere art piece. Its purpose is to create music.

I also consider it a missed artistic opportunity to leave them un-decorated, but you do need to keep your priorities in order.


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 6:33 pm 
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Koa
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First name: Michael
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I piece of art to create art....

In 2012 I attended a workshop in Oakland with Ervin Somogyi. Like his aesthetic or not the matched pair of guitars on his bench were playable art... One was a steel string the other a classical. Both were headed to a collector in Japan, likely destined to live their life in a glass case, Sad! It took 18 months to complete the pair which I was told sold for $70k each.

For me, if my work shows up in the shop for tweek and it doesn't have a dings or two in it, I know it's not getting played. I'm always happy to see the wear... M



These users thanked the author Michaeldc for the post: Haans (Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:30 am)
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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:17 pm 
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Cocobolo
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Art has a few meanings for me. First there is the art of building an instrument. Second is art for art’s sake. Some are able to combine the two and these become “collector” Guitars.
Either one is fine by me. I don’t have issues w this duality.


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:27 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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Don pretty much summed up my opinion. Well said Don.

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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:29 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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That's the beauty of guitars and musical instruments made by hand in general. For me personally it's a craft rather then an art. But for some luthiers it is an art form to build a guitar then that is put in the hands of yet another artist to create yet more art in the form of music with it. It's a beautiful relationship really. I'll even include the photographer in on this chain too, the one who knows how to use the camera to get the best out of our instruments.


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:49 am 
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First name: Don
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Like Dennis and Michael, I chafe at the idea of a really good sounding and playing guitar never making any sound because it never gets played. It is functional art, and it needs to be played in order to fulfill the functional part of that description, even if that leads to some wear and tear.

That thing about the Somogyi guitars sounds a lot like the plot of Toy Story 2. And we all know from that movie that a toy, in order to be a toy, must be played with by a child, not stuck in a glass display case in a museum. Guitars are not different. I weep for the Somogyi guitars that will never get played.


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:29 am 
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Cocobolo
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One of the things that drew me to make my first guitar is the guitar is something people will use to create something far more beautiful than I could ever create. In woodworking, I've thought about making a work of art out of wood but no sooner do I begin to imagine what it might look like than I find myself asking, "Will this just be a dust collector?" To me, seeing a well-played guitar makes it more beautiful than any work of art.

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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:36 am 
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In 2010, Nancy Josephson (David Bromberg's wife and lead singer in the Angel Band) got 8 guitars from Martin that were damaged in shipping and about to be destroyed. She and 7 others decorated them and they were auctioned to help restore the Opera House in Wilmington, DE, across from Bromberg's violin shop. They were all a little gaudy, but very expressive. I can't find pictures of any but this one:

http://www.lehighvalleylive.com/music/i ... ecome.html

Ed


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:40 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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High art in the instrument world...

Image

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These users thanked the author Haans for the post (total 2): Jules (Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:01 pm) • John Lewis (Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:59 am)
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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:07 am 
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Mahogany
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This is for Hans who was wondering if anyone had done this. Yes they have. Healdsburg Guitar festival 2003.


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:24 am 
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Does anyone have video of the Humanitar being played?

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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:56 am 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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No wonder I never went to 'Ealdsburg...

A movie for those that can do subtitles or are French...

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1638277/?ref_=nv_sr_1

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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Thu Jun 07, 2018 12:18 pm 
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Mahogany
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Andy Manson in the UK also took this concept to the somewhat extreme:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wd8IfxYvbUE

I saw this guitar in the flesh, as it were, and not sure I liked it all that much but the craftsmanship was absolutely extraordinary. And a pretty amusing concept.

Dave


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:51 am 
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Cocobolo
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I think of my own work as functional art and also craft. The semantic difference between the two (Art vs Craft) is that art is generally something that an artist makes for the purposes of viewing. Craft is generally perceived to be something that has some degree of practical value and use. These definitions can be blurred a bit because an artist can make a practical object that is strictly intended to be viewed. So really, the artist's intent because important in determining whether it's art or craft.

So that's your "answer" if you want to be semantically correct. As I said, I view my own work as being both art and craft. I build my instruments to be valued for their aesthetics but I also build them as a practical tool for making music.

In the current lutherie landscape, looks are very important. Whatever style you decide build in, you can approach your work so that it has a coherent design. Some things to think about are proportions, balance, and coherence of materials and color.


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:36 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
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I'm in the camp that looks at the guitar as a tool for making music. It's nice if it can be artistic in itself, but if it comes down to a choice between 'art' and musical function, it's the art that has to give. Ideally, of course, it should never have to come to that.



These users thanked the author Alan Carruth for the post: pat macaluso (Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:38 am)
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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

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Guess I'd like to see this one played...might need a T/R adjustment first.

Image

About as far as I ever strayed from the "straight and narrow" were these.

Image

Image

Nothing wrong about incorporating art in your music, though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Q-RVnpqOUg

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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:54 pm 
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Koa
Koa

Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2007 1:27 pm
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Location: United States
Haans wrote:
We call that Ort up here...
I'm waiting for someone to have the neck coming out of the soundhole, myself. :shock:


Challenge accepted. Mental design in process already. Thanks for the idea Haans


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 8:24 pm 
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Mahogany
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Joined: Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:51 pm
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art guitar!


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 Post subject: Re: guitars as Art
PostPosted: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:47 am 
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Cocobolo
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Location: Creedmoor, NC
First name: Tim
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Zip/Postal Code: 27522
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You can have both. A collaboration between myself and my artist brother-in-law. The pic is a stand of old growth red Spruce (Adirondack Spruce).


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