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PostPosted: Tue Oct 24, 2017 9:47 pm 
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I have a crappy Delta 110 dust collector (1 micron) that I'm thinking about upgrading, which would allow me to dedicate the old dust collector to the other side of the shop for the router table and mitre saw. The Laguna PFlux is $250 off until Thursday and I can't decide if it's a worth while upgrade or overkill. I don't have the greatest wind bags to begin with so this is probably more about long term health than performance/convenience upgrade, although it would be nice to have the dust collector and bandsaw hooked up to the machine full time without having to move the single duct.

If anyone has this unit I'd like your thoughts and also how many machines you comfortably run on it. It's about $250 more than the 2HP 1 Micron unit, which right now seems impulsively worth it to me. I just don't want to regret the purchase. Also a hefty write off for the year. I'm stuck between this dust collector or building a very powerful computer that I would use for my day job (AutoCAD), 3D modeling applications and other design/photography applications. I can't afford both right now unfortunately.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 6:14 am 
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Joey--

I don't have personal experience with the Laguna, but for the amount of money you are talking about spending on dust collection, I would go with a Clear Vue CV1800. They cost a bit less and you get a far better collector. I love mine, and I think most folks who dig into the topic of dust collection would say that Clear Vue has a great reputation.

If you want to spend less money, you can always go with a Harbor Freight blower, paired with a separator and a HEPA filter. You get a lot of collection for the money that way. But when you want to go big and spend about $2,000 or more, I think Clear Vue wins the value race.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 7:35 am 
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I bought one for a project at work...

That thing is fantastic. Its worlds better than the cheap units you see all over the place.

One of the big advantages is that it was designed right from the start.

It flows about 50% more cfm's than competitors models.

The cyclone and filter package is amazing. In real life - the vast majority of the dust ends up in the bin - not in the filter.

If I had the money - I would have one in my shop.



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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:37 pm 
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As one of the members pointed out to me, the dust collector is to help keep the shop clean, but not for lung protection. You still need a respirator while generation airborne particles. I you are thinking of HEPA for improved lung protection, I think that is not helpful.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 2:49 pm 
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wbergman wrote:
As one of the members pointed out to me, the dust collector is to help keep the shop clean, but not for lung protection. You still need a respirator while generation airborne particles. I you are thinking of HEPA for improved lung protection, I think that is not helpful.


I do wear a mask as well while generating dust but the cleaner that the air/floor etc is then the less dust gets into the house or worse yet into the HVAC system (separate from the shop with good filters). I'm also getting an air scrubber as well in order to reduce the fine particles in the air faster. Every little bit helps.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:55 pm 
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fingerstyle1978 wrote:
wbergman wrote:
As one of the members pointed out to me, the dust collector is to help keep the shop clean, but not for lung protection. You still need a respirator while generation airborne particles. I you are thinking of HEPA for improved lung protection, I think that is not helpful.


I do wear a mask as well while generating dust but the cleaner that the air/floor etc is then the less dust gets into the house or worse yet into the HVAC system (separate from the shop with good filters). I'm also getting an air scrubber as well in order to reduce the fine particles in the air faster. Every little bit helps.


Everything helps - I have a Oneida cyclone and a Jet filter unit that I run when cutting, sanding or drilling. I also have a downdraft table when I sand with the ROS. All of this makes a huge difference in the amount of airborne dust in the shop as well as helping the cleanliness. I also still wear a mask most of the time when running the machines.

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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:56 pm 
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wbergman wrote:
As one of the members pointed out to me, the dust collector is to help keep the shop clean, but not for lung protection. You still need a respirator while generation airborne particles. I you are thinking of HEPA for improved lung protection, I think that is not helpful.


A MERV 16 filter is quite a different beast than a bag or 1 micron canister filter.

I still wear a mask when actually creating dust, but the overall improvement in shop air quality when not wearing the mask is a stark improvement after installing a 5hp Oneida with the MERV 16+ filter. I also run a household HEPA filter 24/7.

And laser air particulate counters aren't that expensive if you want to know what's actually happening in your shop...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 8:18 pm 
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doncaparker wrote:
Joey--

I don't have personal experience with the Laguna, but for the amount of money you are talking about spending on dust collection, I would go with a Clear Vue CV1800. They cost a bit less and you get a far better collector. I love mine, and I think most folks who dig into the topic of dust collection would say that Clear Vue has a great reputation.

If you want to spend less money, you can always go with a Harbor Freight blower, paired with a separator and a HEPA filter. You get a lot of collection for the money that way. But when you want to go big and spend about $2,000 or more, I think Clear Vue wins the value race.


Thanks for the suggestion. I've looked into both a bit this evening and here is what I came up with.

CV 1800 -----------------Laguna P|Flux 3HP
$1,695 (without canister)_______$2,248.00 (CV 1800 is more affordable)
78 dB__________________________76 dB (both are loud as hell)
1,442 CFM_____________________2,817 CFM (despite a smaller motor Laguna has more suck power)
52" x 21" x 8'__________________47" x 28" x 6'6"
Needs to be hung______________Comes on casters for easy moving if need be (I rent)
MERV-15______________________MERV-16

aaaaaand- still can't decide.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:18 pm 
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Bear in mind a good filter is about 400$...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:21 pm 
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The general criticisms of the Laguna style machines is that the specs are way, way overrated. The clearvue specs can be trusted more to real life figures. I would do a lot of reading before making a decision...


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:34 pm 
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truckjohn wrote:
I bought one for a project at work...

That thing is fantastic. Its worlds better than the cheap units you see all over the place.

One of the big advantages is that it was designed right from the start.

It flows about 50% more cfm's than competitors models.

The cyclone and filter package is amazing. In real life - the vast majority of the dust ends up in the bin - not in the filter.

If I had the money - I would have one in my shop.


It is definitely a very nice well thought out, slick piece of machinery. After watching a detailed setup video that goes through and explains every feature I don't think 96 bD in my previous post is correct and the presentation also pretty much seals the deal for me. I'm going to go have a hands on look at one tomorrow afternoon. Hopefully they have a decibel meter handy. Looks like it will be more than adequate for my current needs with plenty of room to expand.

Which ever way I end up going I'm looking forward to having a floor sweep unit. I've been wanting one of those since I was in 7th grade shop class- although at that time I was thinking of it more for the kitchen/dining room hardwood floors that I was stuck cleaning all the time!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdjV_1J1Jf8


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:46 pm 
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meddlingfool wrote:
The general criticisms of the Laguna style machines is that the specs are way, way overrated. The clearvue specs can be trusted more to real life figures. I would do a lot of reading before making a decision...


The clearvue looks like a pretty nice machine as well. I'd like to have a look at one of them too but there are no stores within 100 miles of me. Also having to ceiling mount is a problem for me since I rent and I don't have a ladder to reach the 12' ceiling or any friends around here to help me get it up there.

I didn't know much of this since my current system sucks, or more accurately doesn't suck nearly enough! There's a lot of error in real world use though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--n04W78_3I


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:16 pm 
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WTF is this guy doing? Doesn't appear that he really gives a squat about dust in the air in general! I had a good laugh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EOhfxtDZCS4


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 7:41 am 
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Joey--

You are about 4 hours away from me, but you are welcome to come see my Clear Vue dust collector in person, if you want.

Keep in mind that you can mount the Clear Vue in lots of different ways. I have mine mounted lower than you probably imagine. It just takes some thought about what works best for your shop.

I agree with the post from Ed about not taking the CFM ratings from Laguna at face value. It could be a great dust collector, but they probably fluff those numbers.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 12:41 pm 
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I watched a bit of the video and it does look like a well put together machine...

I'm sure it will be worlds better than the collector you have now. I just hope the specs aren't too overinflated...


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:01 pm 
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The Laguna definitely has some user friendly features. I like the barrel/bag system, where you use a lever to pull the barrel up to the lid.

However, make sure you dig into things like the motor size and the impeller size, and compare apples to apples. That 2,817 CFM rating you mentioned earlier? That's at the 8" inlet. In real life, nobody is sucking dust right at the 8" inlet. Their "shop setting" CFM rating is 1,624. With an impeller roughly the same size as the Clear Vue (half an inch bigger), and 2 fewer horses in the motor, but a larger inlet, I think the comparison gets a bit more complicated.



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 12:18 am 
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doncaparker wrote:
Joey--

You are about 4 hours away from me, but you are welcome to come see my Clear Vue dust collector in person, if you want.

Keep in mind that you can mount the Clear Vue in lots of different ways. I have mine mounted lower than you probably imagine. It just takes some thought about what works best for your shop.

I agree with the post from Ed about not taking the CFM ratings from Laguna at face value. It could be a great dust collector, but they probably fluff those numbers.


Thanks for the offer, but I went to Richmond and picked up the machine this morning (last day of the sale). Putting it together took a while but it’s all together now and running great. It’s a HUGE step up from my old unit. I need to get some piping installed next with about 6 drops. I may come and see how you’ve got your set up if that’s cool. I’ve never been to another builders shop before. It would probably help quite a bit to see another setup.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 6:36 am 
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You are welcome to visit at any time; just give me a heads up, so we can make sure I will be in town and available to show you around.

On the issue of how to run the pipe, there are all sorts of things to consider. On the one hand, you should want to keep the diameter of the pipe as large as you can for as much as you can. On the other hand, 8" pipe that works in this situation is not cheap. I used 6" thin wall sewer and drain PVC, and it works great. But my Clear Vue starts with a smaller inlet than yours, so 6" is not a reduction for me. It would be for you.

Keep the last few feet before the inlet as straight as you can.

Don't use 90 degree corners; use a pair of 45 degree corners, and make the bend more gradual.

Here is the biggie: where you can, make the dust collection ports on your machines bigger, and run big pipe (6") all the way to the machine. If you have to work with 4" ports at the machine, use more than one. For example, my drum sander hood was crap anyway, so I built my own replacement hood with a 6" port. On my table saw, I use a 4" port underneath and a 4" connection to a guard above. My bandsaw has a 4" port, so I use it with a 4" overhead flex hose. You get the picture. If you drop to a single 4" connection for every tool, you are not taking advantage of the dust collector's power.

Install blast gates at every tool drop.

You might want to read a bit over at the Sawmill Creek forum. Lots of discussions of serious dust collection systems over there.

Good luck!


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 8:54 am 
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When you run the pipe you need to do the design based on static pressures and air flow. Bigger is not necessarily better. That 8" input is probably only good for a short run before it needs to be downsized. Bill Pentz's site has a good writeup on that so you can plan your ductwork properly.

http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/ducting.cfm#ducting_introduction

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:11 am 
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doncaparker wrote:
You are welcome to visit at any time; just give me a heads up, so we can make sure I will be in town and available to show you around.

On the issue of how to run the pipe, there are all sorts of things to consider. On the one hand, you should want to keep the diameter of the pipe as large as you can for as much as you can. On the other hand, 8" pipe that works in this situation is not cheap. I used 6" thin wall sewer and drain PVC, and it works great. But my Clear Vue starts with a smaller inlet than yours, so 6" is not a reduction for me. It would be for you.

Keep the last few feet before the inlet as straight as you can.

Don't use 90 degree corners; use a pair of 45 degree corners, and make the bend more gradual.

Here is the biggie: where you can, make the dust collection ports on your machines bigger, and run big pipe (6") all the way to the machine. If you have to work with 4" ports at the machine, use more than one. For example, my drum sander hood was crap anyway, so I built my own replacement hood with a 6" port. On my table saw, I use a 4" port underneath and a 4" connection to a guard above. My bandsaw has a 4" port, so I use it with a 4" overhead flex hose. You get the picture. If you drop to a single 4" connection for every tool, you are not taking advantage of the dust collector's power.

Install blast gates at every tool drop.

You might want to read a bit over at the Sawmill Creek forum. Lots of discussions of serious dust collection systems over there.

Good luck!


Yeah I didn't care for the ducting that Woodcraft carried. In their own shops there they used that green sewer PVC too with 90 degree elbows, which as you mention doesn't pique performance. Their blast gates etc also seemed pretty expensive. I'm looking for an online retailer with better prices


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:42 am 
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Not an answer to your question, but something that might be worth thinking about. If you're building this up from scratch, consider getting the self clearing blast gates.

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywo ... s0pfo4qg_e

I consistently have to open and close mine several times and I can hear more debris going through the pipe. I used aluminum piping. what I believe is happening is bigger particles are getting hung up on the lip if the gate and building up. Just a thought anyway. If I had it to do over again I'd spend a bit more and get better blast gates and get the self clearing kind. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 9:52 am 
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bcombs510 wrote:
Not an answer to your question, but something that might be worth thinking about. If you're building this up from scratch, consider getting the self clearing blast gates.

https://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywo ... s0pfo4qg_e

I consistently have to open and close mine several times and I can hear more debris going through the pipe. I used aluminum piping. what I believe is happening is bigger particles are getting hung up on the lip if the gate and building up. Just a thought anyway. If I had it to do over again I'd spend a bit more and get better blast gates and get the self clearing kind. :)


I've got about 5 or 6 of those in aluminum and they work well. I've never had one clog up in almost 10 years. Mount them horizontally and they are easier to operate - you don't have to fool with the locking knob.

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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:17 am 
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If you go with 6" PVC, thin wall sewer & drain from a plumbing wholesaler is the way to go for the pipe and the elbows.

For the blast gates and 6" to 4" transitions, you can do a lot worse than the Clear Vue products. Even though you bought the Laguna dust collector, I think Clear Vue does a great job on plastic parts for the piping, if you are focused on 6" and 4" pipes and hoses.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 5:52 pm 
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doncaparker wrote:
If you go with 6" PVC, thin wall sewer & drain from a plumbing wholesaler is the way to go for the pipe and the elbows.

For the blast gates and 6" to 4" transitions, you can do a lot worse than the Clear Vue products. Even though you bought the Laguna dust collector, I think Clear Vue does a great job on plastic parts for the piping, if you are focused on 6" and 4" pipes and hoses.


One thing to watch out for with the sewer and drain pipe is to be sure you have the right fittings. In my area the big box stores do not stock the 6” pipe. They’ll order it but only if you buy a whole pallet (about 10x what I needed). So I bought the pipe from a plumbing supply. Lowe’s still has the best prices on the fittings so I ordered a boatload of them online. Everything was Schedule 40, 6” PVC. If you know anything about PVC pipe I expect you can already see where this is going. I didn’t.

The pipe was Schedule 40 sewer and drain pipe. The fittings were Schedule 40 drain-waste-vent pipe. At a more innocent time in my life I did not know there was a difference. I do now.

Fortunately Lowe’s was pretty good about the returns. Weeks later I still saw big boxes of 6” DWV fittings in the plumbing aisle and still no 6” pipe on the racks.

I agree that the ClearVue blast gates and 6-to-double-4 adapters are good. So is their cyclone. It’s a bear to hoist up to mount it though. At least it was for me with a barely 9 ft ceiling and not enough headroom to use a chain hoist. The whole system works great now and I’m really glad I but the bullet and did it.


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:57 pm 
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Yeah, watch out for the Schedule 40 pipe and fittings. You must buy thin wall pipe and fittings. I saved a lot of money on pipe going to a wholesaler, but the elbows & such were cheaper at big box stores.

Think about getting high quality flex hose. And develop a method for stretching flex hose over fittings. I carefully remove the spiral wire from the hose for about 2 inches, heat the now-floppy end with a heat gun, then hustle up and stretch it over the fitting, making sure I slipped on the hose clamp at some point. You might be able to get by without removing the spiral wire, but I don't know how anybody connects flex hose to fittings without heating it up first.

You might need a rubber fitting at or near the first few feet of pipe before the inlet. That section should be straight, but getting it to match up to the collector can be a chore. Hence, the rubber fitting.


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