Official Luthiers Forum!

OK perhaps I've watched South Park too much and have arrested development with Cartman and the anal probe but I wanted to do some test marketing and see if there is interest with OLFers in a Fretwork Workshop. If you think that I am dating myself with the Cartman example at least I've moved past SNL and the drool bucket thing....

We've been asked prior a number of times to do this so I wanted to test it out and see if the interest is there.

Here's what I envision:

1) Held on a non-home-football-game Saturday in The People's Republic of Ann Arbor at our shop. We are closed on weekends so there would not be a conflict with our daily work and clients.

2) Learn to fret as we do using the Stew-Mac Jaws II tool, cauls, and shop made add-ons that permit the tool to fret all frets on the guitar even over the neck heel transition.

3) Learn to do the best fret dresses in three counties... and how to manipulate relief where you want it, fall-away, etc.

4) Learn why fretting on the guitar is safe, fun, easy, and rewarding.

I'm thinking no more than 4 students, a one day, 8 hour class, Pizza lunch provided and a special tool that we have never shown on the forum before but is key to fretting over the neck heel will be provided to keep for each student.

Students will need to pick-up the Jaws II tool and a caul set. You can bring a guitar to work on and one of the guitars may be used as the teaching aid and likely completed during the class or something close to it.

You will also need two leveling beams which you can make yourself and we can walk you though that or you can purchase from OLFer Murray and his Technofret eBay store for a very reasonable, low price.



By the way this is the very same class that I took 8 years ago and walked out after it was done and hung out a shingle for repair work in my home town. It was the milestone in my own career and very much represented the point where the money flow was reversed from out the door to in the door!

With only 4 students the student/instructor ratio will be 2:1 which is how we like it, lots of personal attention and you will have ample opportunity for hands on as well.

Price $300

Anticipated date late October or November

Any interest?

Thanks!

I'm interested (Fretwork Workshop only, please) but having to buy the Stewmac tool makes it pretty pricey, for me at least.

I haven't had any issues seating frets with a 5 oz. dead blow hammer ($24 at Amazon). Do you only want to do the workshop around the $260 StewMac tool?

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Kevin, you were looking at the Jaws Fret Press tool. The StewMac Jaws 2 with cauls is only $130.

Hesh there are two of us who are definitely interested but the timing would have to be next year about Apr/May. Maybe we can hit the second class?

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

I'm interested.

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John Cavanaugh
Saint Paul, MN
"What could possibly go wrong?"

Yep

Maybe you could pass along the unused portion to some previously alien abducted individual that is due for their checkup?

Interested. Keep me in the loop!

I'm surprised by the amount of interest a $300 anal probing has generated. I guess it is true that the internet has something for everyone.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Count me in, just so long as it's after Oct 17.

Steve

You seen how much a colonoscopy costs - this is a bargain!!

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

And when i say I'm in, I mean "where do I send payment?"

Steve

Thanks folks for the replies! Just got home from a fun filled day of a couple of set-ups including a nice jazz guitar and a fret dress and set-up on a nice Breedlove mando. I love this stuff!

OK first Steve and Greg my friends we will be happy to hold a class in the spring that works for you guys. Since you are first in for this one please let me know some dates (Saturdays) that will work for you and we can see if we can make it happen.

For everyone else in respect to the spring class we would have two open slots so if you are interested keep an eye on this thread.

We still want to have a class this fall too so those of you who expressed interest in the fall class why don't you propose a date, maybe early November and a Saturday as well and we can see if we can make that one happen too.

Some additional details: Our plan even though Lance does not know this yet is we also want to support the OLF and have done so in the past with massive classified sales, etc. So 10% of the proceeds from our classes will go to the OLF as a donation. We don't want to become sponsors because we can't know if these classes will be a one-off so-to-speak and besides I tend to be a cheap bastage....

Kevin my friend we only hammer when it's the best tool for the job or an Ov*tion.... Nothing wrong with hammering but much of the class, maybe 35% will be specific to the Jaws II tool and some of the specific idiosyncrasies of using the tool to fret the entire neck on an acoustic guitar. You are most certainly welcome anyway but hammering won't be addressed.

Besides installation, gluing, fret board radiusing for a compound radius here are some additional things that will be taught.

* How to do precision fret dresses. This alone will up your games greatly I am sure and it really helped me. It was no longer a question if the guitar could be set in a desirable and realistic action level it becomes a given. Remember too that action is likely the single greatest complaint about someone's instrument at least it is in our shop.

* A method for doing fret ends that was also just taught at the North Woods Seminar where folks who have done this as long as I have been alive were amazed by what they saw Dave Collins do in a couple of minutes and told him so!

* Fall-away, relief and how to build these in to your instruments and the benefits of same as well.

* Fret wire, quality, sizes, our experiences, and very possibly some early data on just how much harder stainless is than nickel silver and EVO. The results may surprise you.

* Fretting a bound board, fangs, filing the nib under the crown.

* Diamond fret crowning files what we like and why and you will have an opportunity to work with ours as well and try them out before committing to owning your own.

And a host of other details that will come up in the process of doing and doing is exactly what you and we will be doing too. We have four benches with vices ready to go and each student will get one. Dave and I will be floaters.... no jokes please....

Once we decide on dates that work for you guys we will request a 50% non-refundable deposit as a commitment (I hate that word....) and I am sure you can understand why. These seats or perishable and if someone does not show up someone else may have forever lost the opportunity to take that seat on that specific day.

Ann Arbor is a wonderful place by the way and our shop is in the epicenter of the business district with lots of excitement all around us. Hotels are abundant as well and some are very, very nice if not world-class. For those with spouses or significant others the shopping in Ann Arbor is first rate as well and the town is for the most part pretty safe (except in our shop.... ) so feel free to justify your educational endeavor by bringing someone else with you if you wish.

Of course you know me and if you have any questions no matter how potentially weird feel free to post them here or PM me.

Oh yeah, the anal probe although likely available in Ann Arbor as well would be on your own time....

When I get some time I will price the Jaws II tool and Murray's leveling beam and post links to both here too. Everything else will be supplied including consumables (sandpaper, etc. not Miller Genuine Draft although that could happen too...).

We will also be making one for each student of a special jig that Dave designed and we have used for years. It solved the problem of fretting 9 through 16 on a typical acoustic guitar with the Jaws II tool.

Please let me know some dates this fall that will work for you guys and Steve and Greg please do the same for this spring.

Anyone interested we still have seats as well so let us know here please?

Many thanks!

I think I ordered the wrong Jaws2. That may be why my frets are a little rough :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jaws-2-2001-Use ... 541bad8da5

Seriously, I would love to attend, but won't make it to this one. I will keep my options open for the spring fling. Maybe you could set up a camera and do a live webcast.

Fangs? :-)=

Fret a board in the summer in a high humidity environment. Wait till about January and run your fingers down the side -- fangs!

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Hesh, I'm in for any Saturday after Oct 17. Pick one and I'll be there.

Steve

Hesh, Greg and I are meeting this weekend. We'll pick a spring date then

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Told my wife about it, and she says, so when are you going? What a gal! If you're doing more classes in the spring, Hesh, it would work better for me, and I can stay with my cousin and have a visit!

Alex

_________________
"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Thanks Steve!

Hesh, please count me in.

Kevin Looker

_________________
I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

Any weekend after Oct 17th, for Steve, and November 20th when kids are out of school works for me.
"Dave Collins demonstrated how he does the ends with a three corner file and with the frets addressed in groups. One swipe does many frets"
WTF? I gotta see it.

Odd choice of words for the title Hesh, but if we ever do a clinic on electronics, I did find these in my bins of spare parts.

_________________
Eschew obfuscation, espouse elucidation.

Anal Probe. It's just what stands out. And every time I read the topic title I have to double-check to make sure I'm not on a news site.

Hey Barry! Hope that all is well with ya my friend!

Yeah, the fangs, you know, when we nip off a fret end after installing the fret and we hold the nippers vertically instead of horizontally. Holding the nippers vertically partially smashes or crushes the fret end and after the end is nipped off we see little, tiny fangs, two of them, just like a snake.

Holding the nippers horizontally eliminates the fangs. It's a cosmetic thing that is often talked about by folks who don't have a life so we sit around and stare at fret ends and wonder..... Remember this is Ann Arbor and staring at fret ends is a common pastime for old hippies and folks waiting for the next presidential debate next week....

I remember Dave pointing them out to me and me pushing back with "come-on, who's going to care about that...."

Some years later the new answer to that question is that "we care about that..."

The fangs can be filed away of course but it's simply easier to not generate them in the first place. There are places where we don't have a choice and have to hold the nippers vertically such as the fret board extension.

Sure it's a nit but nit elimination is all part of doing great work so the fangs had to go and go they did.

Thanks again folks it looks like we are now actively booking for two classes: one this fall and one next spring. When I get caught up at work today I will take all of your requests in mind, consult with Dave and then we will propose two dates for the classes.

More to come....

I should mention too that class participants should bring a guitar to work on that has not been fretted. If you don't have one no worries we have beaters all over this place that would make excellent mules for the class. On the other hand if you have a newly finished creation you may just get Dave to use it as the example and it may, I say may.... with your sweat equity as well be completed by the end of the class. A refret is north of $400 on our price list so someone is not only going to learn a ton but maybe walk away with their new guitar fully fretted with an expert job!

I know right? (love that modern phrase), I have to look furtively over my shoulder every time I click on the title.