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I've been doing a little refining of my headstock design, namely adjusting the string line between the nut and the tuners. I don't like how close the A string passes by the E string tuner post. I decided to do a cad drawing of the Martin headstock so I could drag the drawing over the drawing of my current design to compare geometry. What I found was surprised me... Martin moves the E string tuning machines outboard a 1/16" in order to deal with the string line issue. How had I never noticed this?

Anyone else miss this?

Cheers, Michael

Well if you aren't aware of the issue it's one of those things easily missed. Of course if it flared out much more (from the fretboard transition) that would also take care of it. Actually on many Nylon stringed instruments it's fairly common to see the strings foul one of the tuner posts. Matters much less on Nylon strings.

Yeah .. I always hated that look, so I tried to make my Martin style headstock pattern a touch wider ... if you look at Martin, Larrivee, Taylor 12 strings, the strings actually bend around the E string post to get to the A and B ... not my kinda thinking, so mine don't do that ... different headstock shape, more Gibson like ...

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Tony Karol
www.karol-guitars.com
"let my passion .. fulfill yours"

I only noticed that when inspecting a CNC carved neck from stu-mac, and noticed they weren't linear. Don't know if that's modeled after a martin head or not?

I hadn't noticed Martin's layout, but I found myself adjusting things similarly when designing my own headstock shapes. I still haven't decided on a final look for mine. Luckily I enjoy experimenting.

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George :-)

I never noticed, either, but I don't have many chances to handle Martins. It's a good solution--one that is so subtle it's not likely to be noticed by many people. And it's symmetrical, so it looks nice even to most who notice it.

Thanks for pointing that out Michael. I had never noticed. I've never been a fan of their head stock shape. And now that you draw attention to this I like it even less.

I'm surprised by how much I've overlooked this with Martins. Because the tuners / washers relationship to the edge of the headstock is something that drives me crazy in my own building. I look at Olsons and Ryans and notice how they've got that down to a science, and I don't think I've come close even once in a dozen guitars. Part of the reason I put a backing veneer on the headstock is to "cover up" that inconsistency.

That's funny, I noticed on my first guitar, only because I assumed it was one more case where I had screwed up

I noticed that problem for sure. Even worse on a 12 string. The larrivees come pretty close but don't actually touch on the 6 strings. The 12 strings are a design fail that I couldn't get changed no way no how.

I think on the next one I do I will draw the line outwards by 1mm further each side. They don't touch but are pretty close. They touch on my Martin 12 string.

It is quite obvious on a Melody Maker.

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

I take the easy way out....

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

Nice, Joe. Many others are doing something similar, as you know very well. But it's still interesting about Martins. I suppose that headstock shape evolved out of an historic slotted head shape or whatever. ....and if my supposition is incorrect, I know I'll be corrected very shortly!

But, seriously, think of it this way: If you are the CF Martin company, that headstock shape is iconic. Yet, it isn't going to work very well with post tuners. What do you do? I guess you do what they did.

Nice Joe!

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Thanks CP and Dan. It is a pretty common alternative to the martin style.

CP...I think you may be right about them keeping the head shape when they transitioned from slotted to through the peg head. At least it sounds likely to me.
It's a lot easier to just move a couple holes then change the head stock and have to hope it catches on.

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Joe Beaver
Maker of Sawdust

You will notice the same thing on a Collings guitar with the similar shaped headstock.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

Well, Yes, Don it seems that you are right.

When you look at Mr Collings copying Mr Martin or Mr Gibson, I know which I prefer.

I love the Collings "dinged" headstock. I wonder if there's a story behind that design?

Yeah, the Collings "haircut" peg head is a nice variation on the Gibson design. I love how the top edge is cut at an angle like a mandolin or banjo.

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Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Strings touching have always driven me crazy too even though there are many many fine examples of beautiful guitars that exhibit said feature. I like the way Martin solved this problem that way they get to keep a nice light headstock. It's along the same lines as when the strings touch the exit ramps of a slot head, drives me nuts. On the Selmer guitar I built this happens and I have yet to get around to fixing it but I will, some day. In the future that will be remedied. But again, when my DjangoBooks news letter comes in I always take a look at all these beautiful new and old Selmer guitars and many of them have strings bent over the ramps.

A nit picking bunch we are aren't we.

On UMGF, the question was asked if strip tuners were a good option on a CEO-7, which has a standard Martin solid headstock. After I explained that the holes were not in a straight line, another poster came back and suggested that the strip tuners should work fine. Not unless you own a hole mover

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John

Stew-mac will have one of those hole-mover tools in their next catalog.

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I need one of those as soon as they come out, hoping that they include the hole reducer function in it as well and don't get greedy by offering it as a separate tool. Because, you know, sometimes the hole is in the right place, it just needs to be 1/2" and not the 5/8" you mistakenly drilled.

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Kurt Thomas

"There's a first time for everything even if you do it by mistake."

On page 43 of their latest catalog that just arrived there is a selection of holes. They also offer a bag-'o-holes that must have overstocks and sizes that don't sell well.

Ed

I don't think it is because the holes aren't selling well, they just have a surplus. The holes are a byproduct of their drilling operations and they are, wisely, making them available to market. Just look at the success Tony is having selling his BWR kerfs (hopefully he will send me a bucket full for the free advertizing).

If you are looking for a good source of holes, buddy up with archtop makers. They often drill a bunch of holes in the plates to get close to thickness. They just end up carving/planing the holes away. They get swept up into the garbage. If you offer to take them off their hands, everyone wins. . .

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.