Official Luthiers Forum!

Okay - I finally finished my 10th and she is pretty, the geometry was on the money and the set-up is good, she sounds very good, but... THE TRUSS ROD RATTLES! After consulting with the OLF archives and suggestions from Terry Kennedy and a Frets.com article, I have concluded that if I inject some diluted rubber cement into the truss rod channel there is a good chance I can alleviate the rattle. (This won't happen again...)

I believe that I will have to remove the neck and drill a small hole near the end (adjustment end) and inject the rubber cement. I am hoping that the dilute cement will follow the truss rod as I hold the neck in position and fill the gap. With luck, no additional holes will be needed.

I have not removed a neck before. In this case, it is a M&T bolt-on. Glue was only applied to the fretboard extension. What is the best way to apply heat to the FB extension without damaging the finish on the top (or the FB for that matter...)? I have seen where someone used a heat lamp and masked off the top with aluminum foil... Could I use a clothes iron and mask the top somehow? aluminum foil? I also don't want to damage the finish (EM6000) on the bound FB.

Any guidance or suggestions would be appreciated.

I'd like to post some photos but knowing the truss rod rattles (and some notes distort) I don't feel right about it. Once the rattle is gone I'll be proud to show it off...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

oh yeah, the glue the FB extension was glued with was LMI white...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Steve: Heat lamp................and insulation for the top made from thick corrugated cardboard covered with AL foil. I would not let the AL foil touch the top. The lamp gives an even heat that you can control.
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

What about pulling a fret, drilling a small hole, and injecting into the channel with a syringe? A fret marker would work, too.

cheers, SteveG

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RurSR88jc8s
this may help

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I was thinking just pull a fret marker out

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

It appears that an alternative to pulling the neck is to either pull a fret or a position marker. I was thinking that pulling the neck might be a way that would have the least potential for damage. Pulling a position marker out could be challenging in replacing the marker and then reinstalling another such that it is flush with the FB. ...could be tough. Pulling a fret might be easier...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

Why not tighten the rod just a smidge?
That might bring it into contact in the right places to mute it out.
I`m just talking a very little bit at a time so as to not interfere with the setup you already have.
I did just that on a couple electrics in the past and it worked.
It just might save you some headache and troubles.
Coe

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

I have a piece of 1/4" aluminium the size of the FB extension. This might sound scary but I dadoed out for the fret slots on the aluminium on my table saw. Aluminium works a lot like wood. I then take a heavy damp cloth, like sweatshirt material and surround the extension with it to protect the finish. Remove the neck bolts and I put a cloths iron on it at low heat. For a SS with a radius FB you have to rock it back and forth. Have the neck in a rest so the body is a little off the bench and after a couple minutes of heat apply some pressure to the joint. Might take about 5 minutes depending how much and what kind of glue. Do yourself a favour if you don't already, use about 4 drops of white school glue in the future. It will never lift off but it makes it very easy to remove.

One way to do it. Works well for me.

Often times that is just a temporary fix. The rattle comes back. I have a guitar like that and I can deal with it, I just have to tweak the rod once in a while. Removing a bolt on neck is easy enough, maybe even easier then removing the FB markers but with the FB marker method you will get more coverage in the channel I think.

Steve,

Before you start the job, just check one more time to make sure that your rattle isn't coming from a nut slot that's too deep. I was about to get into this kind of job a while back, certain that the rattle was from the rod. But I got my ear really close, and found that the noise was coming from a fret behind the note I was fretting.

The way that unwanted noise was emanating from the whole instrument I was sure that it must be the truss rod. But it wasn't. Turned out that the fix for my problem took a few minutes rather than hours.

I am confident that the rattle is coming from the truss rod rather than a tuner or the nut or something else, as I can shake the guitar and hear the rattle coming from up and down the neck. I have tried to tighten the rod but it's not enough to get rid of the rattle. I will make sure that this doesn't happen again...! This is what you call "a learning opportunity" or "gaining experience"... as painful as it is. I think I can do the job okay, I just hope I don't inflict any damage to the finish or otherwise.

I will need to get together the tools and items I will need to do it. My plan is to remove the neck, drill a hole into the (Allied) truss rod channel and infect rubber cement diluted with naphtha thin enough to inject and drool down the channel. I will likely need to find a long drill bit to get past the tenon (anyone know where I can get one?). I will either use a long hypodermic needle (anyone know where I can get one?) or the thin tube from a glue bottle. I will take care to not get the contact cement on the threads of the rod, although, this stuff my not be a problem. I think this strategy may be better that the removal of a fret or position marker, which might limit how much cement I can get in the channel.

I'm going to go ahead and post some photos of the guitar in a separate post before I do the job in case of a mishap...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

In the couple I had tapping on the neck elicited a little rattle. A drugstore might sell you a 4" spinal needle if you tell them what it is for. Those have a stylet in the needle that can be withdrawn for injection. I'd use an 18G. Round off the tip so it will slip up the channel.

That said, if it is an ebony board you can just drill a hole in the board near a fret and a second vent hole farther south and fill them afterwards and it will be invisible.

Good luck.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Forget trying to get syringes at a med supply or drugstore. Go to a veterinarian supply, and get whatever you want. That's what I do.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

I have what you need.
I don`t recall where it came from, but I scavenged a 16 gauge needle (needle only) from somewhere years ago.
I think maybe from a tattoo shop.
Want it?
Coe

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Give me 50 cents worth of regular.
Check my oil too, if you don`t mind,,,

I've pulled a fret at each in and drilled a small hole in the slots and then injected with a glue syringe I got from Stew Mac. Fixed the problem and is pretty easy to do.From that point on I glue a strip on top of the rod flush it to the neck and then glue the board on.Robbie Obrien has a video showing how to do this.It solves rod rattles.

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Thanks for the offer Coe. My friend (and OLF member) Tim Benware told me he has some needles and syringes I can use and he lives close by. I think that my truss rod channel was not tight enough. I will do a better job next time and make sure the TR won't rattle. James - I'll check out Robbie's video...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

The heat resistance of the finish varies. Poly is very heat resistant, even significant heat (very hot to the touch) will not affect them in any way. Nitro on the other hand are a lot less resistant, and as low as 100F will cause them to bubble and blister. French polish is a bit like that... For nitro based finish I don't even bother using a heat shield, I found enough heat still conducts through to leave very nasty marks as the finish soften due to heat. Fingerboards are also big enough that if you placed an iron on it, very little of the guitar body will actually be directly under the iron (the fb will take up most area of the iron)

By the way finish materials that are less resistant will also be easier to repair, but if the guitar top is sunburst you must be very careful, because touching up sunburst transition is very difficult if not impossible.

Next time add some silicone to the truss rod slot before installing the rod.

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Wrap electrical tape or masking tape around the rod about every three inches.
If you do decide to remove the neck, here is the way I loosen the fingerboard from the top:
I use a 250 watt heatlamp.
I mask the top with white corrugated cardboard, cutting a hole in it that is about 1/8" smaller than the fingerboard. I also mask inlays by covering them with white poster board.
I shine the heatlamp on the area, judging the temperature by putting water on the fingerboard with a small brush. When the water starts to sizzle, I know it is getting hot enough.
I use a flexible putty knife to run under the fingerboard to loosen it. If the top has runout, I make sure I am not 'digging in' to the grain on one side. I do this by starting on the side of the top that has the correct grain direction, beginning on the end of the fingerboard. Once that side is loose, I can go across the grain to the other side, starting as close to the neck block as I can. I then work back toward the end of the fingerboard on that side.

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John

Thanks for the tips guys. I used LMI White (the last of the old stuff) on the fretboard extension, so I'm hoping it will release fairly easily. Since I don't have a router table, I routed the channel using an edge guide on my router. It's probably more difficult to get a good tight channel that way...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com