Official Luthiers Forum!

Anyone used Caucasian Spruce (Picea Orientalis) for a classical soundboard?
Impressions?

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Spruce is spruce....

I have never used it-only because I
never had a chance too.

But I judge my tops by weight/stiffness/cut(Not much to NO runout)
And if it's seasoned enough to use.

It's experience & gut feeling for me every time I pick a top
for a guitar.


Mike

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Mike Collins

I have quite a bit of C. spruce. Most of my stock is from the romanian carpathian mts. .It has a wide grain pattern. I/ve noticed that it seems to respond very much like englemann spruce which is soft ,too and has a tighter grain .I get mine CS from john preston

Ernie the stuff John Preston has is Carpathian Spruce not Caucasian Spruce. Carpathian is just ordinary European Spruce from the Carpathian mountains, P. abies. It is not the same species as Caucasian Spruce which is P.orientalis which is the one Colin is asking about.

Colin, yes I have built about a dozen classicals using Caucasian Spruce, I like it very much. In fact it has been used for classical guitars since the 19th century, it is thought that a fair number of the 19th century Spanish instruments were built using it as it commonly came in to Spain from the Levant with shipments of cloth and spices from that area. The Spanish builders just lumped it in with other Spruce and didn't distinguish it from P.abies.

In fact I have just sent off three Caucasian topped classical guitars to my dealer in Spain, and one over to the USA.

These two are examples of my guitars using it.





Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

that´s a wonderful guitar...

Colin (North) i have a set and was going to say i could measure its density and speed of sound, but from Colin (Symmonds) example i take it should be just fine.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Colin S, thanks for the info, and the great pics - very interesting to get the historical aspect. I've heard it's used in ouds (unsurprisingly) and lutes.
Miguel, thanks. I have a set myself, taps well, density a bit heavy at 0.50 (!)
Tight grained (30+/in). Seems stiffer across grain than most spruces I've handled.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Colin, are you buying it directly from Turkey or from as dealer in the UK?

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We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.

that´s rather heavy .... just measured mine, FWIW: density .41 and the speed of sound is 5260 m/s

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Thanks for pointing out my error, yes I have carpathian not caucasian.! .I/ve never used it ,Seems like a good choice.Nice work colin s.

Direct from Turkey, Octopus tonewoods. (Prices on website include postage)

Yes, seems heavy at 0.50 SG -
It's just been in a pile of tops in a corner for ages, I'll be stickering it on the bench and checking the weight over a couple of days to see if it looses moisture.

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Colin is that second CL gtr pecky maple ??. Reason I ask is I have some very similiar wood in colour and pecky figure but it/s a local willow which I was cutting today . Thanks. Ps I noticed marcus on delcamp made the same error.If the caucasian spruce comes from a southern med climate.Guessing that is what some use for their bouzoukis , baglamas etc. I watched a number of videos by turkish makers and was wondering what kind of spruce they used ? they also hollow carve mulberry wood for their backs very interesting .As it (mulberry)grows here .

Ernie the guitar is Maple, I suppose you could call it Birdseye maple, though I think it was originally described by Bob Cefalu as Teardrop Maple due to it's unique figure. I bought it from Bob way back in the early days of the OLF for some ridiculously low price. I've never seen maple like it since.



Caucasian spruce as it's name implies does come from the eastern Mediterranean area up into turkey and some of the Eastern republics. I get mine from Turkey, I get about ten sets at a time and the guy, Muzaffa, picks them out according to my specs and puts then aside for me.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Colin that back is gorgeous . I just luv it !, and it seems vy much like the pecky willow I got from my local sawmill. I/ve got muzaffa on my facebook list of friends ,Will have to break down and get some cypress, and C. spruce from him.Thanks for posting the pics , cheers ernie.

Colin, I've seen that website before and been interested.
I was wondering, is there any reason why you would choose caucasian spruce over any other species of spruce? If you're buying 10 sets at a time you must like the stuff.

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We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.