Official Luthiers Forum!

Watch the quilt on this Sapele parlour guitar stand up and say hello using West System Epoxy.

http://youtu.be/TdLpeob302o

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

How many coats do you do?

3 coats and then sanding in between with 220 RO sander. The first coat just gets soaked up and seals the wood. The next two levels and fills the pores.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

Ummm, yeah, that's gorgeous.

_________________
sweat the small stuff.

Beautiful wood, for sure. Pore filling isn't my favorite step but I'm not using epoxy. Looks like the epoxy goes on easy. How hard is it to hand sand assuming you do a good job of removing the excess?

_________________
Once in a while you get shown the light in the strangest of places if you look at it right - Robert Hunter

That sure does pop the figure, gorgeous!

_________________
The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

If one is careful to remove the excess the sanding goes quite quickly.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

Doug: Wonder if you have also used Zpoxy and if you have, could you comment on any pluses and minuses? Beautiful looking guitar by the way.
Tom

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Thanks Tom. I have tried no other products so I am not in a position to offer comparisons. However I picked up the idea and method from the venerable Todd Stock who used zpoxy. I believe you can still find his video of this on youtube.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

You sure wouldn't like the way I do it...

Doug: I've used Zpoxy and also seen Todd video. Your epoxy seemed a bit thinner and seemed to flow very easily. Do you thin or heat before applying?
Tom

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

Doug,
You've obviously got your application process mastered and I don't think anyone can argue with your results on that guitar. I've never used epoxy as a filler. I've read about it countless times but have always shied away from it for one reason or another. You make it look very easy. Thanks for posting your video.
Patrick

I neither heat or thin. West System 105/207 comes quite thin as it is made for fiberglassing boats, etc.. It is my unqualified opinion that an epoxy seal/pore-fill adds a layer of depth and enhancement of wood figure that some other methods cannot achieve to the same degree.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

I have built 4 now and am not a fan of a mirror finish. I don't fill completely and prefer the look of some open grain. Over last weekend I was in my daughter's shop in Brooklyn and she had a Fraulini 12 string in for a minor issue and I got to see what Todd Cambio does first hand. He uses varnish sprayed and does what appears to be no grain filling. The guitar has a nice amount of gloss, but is no where near shiny, and the open grain was very obvious. Not sure what wood it was as it was stained dark with a mild sunburst on the back, but from the inside looked like it might have been a mahogany. I see my future.

Ed Minch

Nice wood Doug. Is that faux "The Tree"? That's going to be a great looking guitar. Where did you get the back and sides?

Pore filling is by far my least favorite step, but a necessary evil if one wants to sell a guitar in this day and age. Epoxy does a great job of popping the figure and 'wetting' the wood for sure.


I've used both. Zpoxy's mix ratio is definitely more forgiving and it seems to sand easier, but that may be at least in part due to my process being a lot cleaner than it was back when I used to use West System. Another difference, though subtle, is a slight amber color that Zpoxy adds where West System is clear. Both work well when used properly. Note that there are different formulations of Zpoxy... you want to make sure to use the Finishing resin.

I bought it from Mike Rosendahl through the OLF Classifieds (worth subscribing to). He bought it from RC Tonewoods.

_________________
Doug

Don't let fear or common sense stop you from trying to build something

I used Z-poxy on my first few guitars and though they were slick when freshly buffed, they all have visible pores as the epoxy has shrunk. Has anyone else encountered this? I used Cardinal paste filler on one and it was user friendly and stable but I'm not fond of the look. On my latest build I pore filled with shellac. It was quite labor intensive (must have taken 15-20 wiped on coats) but it made a rather pedestrian set of EIR really pop.

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Yes. Tried two different lots of Zpoxy with same disappointing results within 6 months. Switched to West System with no change in application technique and problem disappeared.

Thanks, Tim. Good to know.

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Casey, you are stating what I seldom see stated, on any forum. There is no perfect, shrink proof filler product or technique. I've tried most all I have read about, including three types of epoxy, CA glue, waterborne, and traditional paste. Haven't tried eggs or drywall compound.
I have to some degree or another seen pores later, from 6 months to a year later and in varying degrees (sometimes just in one area sometimes all over).
It also depends on how thick my final finish is (I use nitro). It is odd that you have then on all guitars you have built. Try another coat of epoxy next time and don't sand back to wood if you are doing that. See how that works.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Casey, do you sand between those 15-20 coats of shellac? What cut of shellac are you using?
Thanks, Wendy

Wendy, there were probably three sanding sessions with 320 dry before the pores were filled. I didn't measure the cut, but on the recommendation of a friend I put the flakes (super blonde) in a jar and covered them with twice as much alcohol. A thinner first coat helps seal the grain.

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

Not that it makes much difference, but I'm using blonde dewaxed flakes from shellac shack, not super blonde. I also used less alcohol as the process went along.

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.

That must be seriously heavy shellac to fill pores in a few sessions. It used to take me the best part of two weeks and that was with leaving the shellac sanding dust filling the pores.