Official Luthiers Forum!

I would like to know what is the average cost of replacing a top on an acoustic guitar. Also how can you tell what type of spuce a top is?

We would have to know more about your specific job but here is some general information.

Just yesterday I got a call from a Blueridge owner who had his "highly ornate", "rare" Blueridge messed up in shipping (yet another guitar shipping nightmare story...).

He wants the top replaced. Mind you what's wrong is a single crack that can be easily repaired but since this person believes (I beg to differ...) that what ever it costs will be on the carrier's dime since they did it he is going for broke here and wants the top replaced regardless of price. It's not his money (or so he thinks at this point...) so he doesn't care.

We declined for a number of reasons since the story is fraught with the potential to get into a pissing contest. But when I told him that a top replacement at a quality shop can cost a couple thou I could hear the atrial fibrillation from him through the phone....

Top replacement is a BIG job and then you have refinishing aspects as well. The folks who do this and do it well charge a great deal and I'll stand by my $2K and up quote for quality work. It's also not the kind of thing that some shops want to do for various reasons including the refinishing aspects.

When building a guitar replacing a top is a far smaller job if the neck is still off and the instrument has not been finished yet. But on completed guitars top replacement will be expensive you can count on that.

I usually don't quote prices, but I will say that top replacement by the 'router method' is much quicker and easier than removing and replacing the binding.
http://www.grevenguitars.com/retopping-demo.html

_________________
John

I replaced my first top the other day on a guitar I built a while back. Wasn't easy 2k seems like reasonable offer especially on a guitar that valuable. The retop went well for me I'm glad I did it.

John I wish I had seen your page before I did mine couple things in there you did I didn't think of. Thanks for the info!

For my prices in Taiwan, no less than $1000 USD. Have to factor in the cost of the top, etc. but that's a very small price compared to the amount of work needed. Then there's voicing the top and all. If the guitar is getting a neck reset then a retop is not a bad thing to add onto the price of the repair... it would essentially be done as a part of retop so wouldn't have any extra charge (kinda like a boat being in dry dock, and you want to get any hull work done while it's in dry dock).

Another aspect to a retop is actually having to make sure the side fits onto the new top properly... it's surprising how difficult that can be!

That is unless you have a Fender Stratocoustic where the neck just bolts on like a solid body Fender guitar.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Thanks guys. The guitar is a high end Larrivee. The owner needs a quote or insurance. The slide show was good. saves trying to redue the binding.
Thanks again.
Dave

Sitka spruce is the only one that is easily distinguished. Sometimes it can be determined from a photo, but not always. You may want to contact Larrivee and ask them.

_________________
John

It is highly probable that it is sitka. In the seventeen years I was there, I'd say about 1/2% was anything other. What's the serial number?

Also, last time I checked it was an 800$ operation. Depending on your skills (which I have no way to assess so please don't take this as being judgemental) you may be best off sending it back to them. Especially as they have a bracing system different from many. Just sayin...

Just save the old top so you can read the existing bracing scheme. Unless it's a double top or laminated carbon fiber braces it shouldn't be hard.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

John Greven is one of the worlds master guitar maker's -- here's his re-top process, not easy!

http://www.grevenguitars.com/retopping-demo.html

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

Doesn't seem all that hard, trim the top to size using the body as an outline and size it for binding at the same time. Routing for the purfling afterward takes care of any possible gaps...

What I don't get is how is he able to get it ready to play in 2 weeks... I guess he's not using traditional nitrocellulose lacquer. I quote at least 2 months for anything requiring refinishing simply because I need that long for the finish to cure enough to be durable.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I'll ask John what he uses -- but I know that Preston Thompson does final polish in about 10 days, me too. Plus as far a nitro lacquers there are many pre-cats available that are even less then time than that. I know, I know -- if the manufacturer recommends 7-10 days, than 6 times that must be better.

As an example:

Cardinal Luthierlac Spray Lacquer (FLC128/FLC32) is a solvent borne gloss nitrocellulose lacquer designed specifically for musical instruments. It exhibits a high degree of toughness, ease of application, fast drying, resistance to cold checking, and buffing properties that result in a beautiful, clear glossy finish. Unlike other musical instrument lacquers, Cardinal’s Luthierlac sinks back quickly and can be buffed after only 7 days. The lacquer is pre-reduced 10%, so it is ready to spray. It can be further reduced to your liking from 10-20% with the Cardinal lacquer thinner.

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I'll be interested to hear if others think its a piece of cake job --- not my cup of tea.

_________________
Ken Cierp

http://www.kennethmichaelguitars.com/

I can't really get pre-cats, only 2K or regular lacquer. I don't feel safe enough to use 2K.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I have probably done 7 or 8 by that method, and I have to say that it is much easier than the traditional way. Even so, I would hesitate to say any retop is a 'piece of cake'.....even with 26 years of experience (my first retop was a 1957 D-28, done in 1988).

I use Mohawk piano lacquer, which is conventional nitrocellulose. I have no problem buffing out a top after a week, but that is mainly because I ventilate it with a fan blowing directly on it. There usually is some shrinkage, but since I mostly repair vintage guitars, some shrinkage actually looks more authentic. Rosewood or mahogany, being porous woods, will show more degradation from the shrinkage than a spruce top....which is another reason to use the router method on retops. In that case, the binding and finish on the sides is left intact.

_________________
John

That method will only work if the guitar is undamaged and the top just needed replacement. If the guitar is badly damaged, like if someone sat on it (like that "my guitar just opened up" thread), that method will not work because the side will have deformed due to the damaged top. In that case the "traditional" method is needed.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

If it is a quote for insurance, I think you should offer the following information. The cost to replace the top and the reduction in value because it is no longer original--if the value is reduced. The insurance might pay more than the cost to replace the top.

For a hypothetical example, if a top is cracked but repaired, the repair might cost $200, but the value is reduced $1,000. The owner is out both the $200 and the $1,000.

I think you need to add a second label in the guitar stating the it was retopped by you, if you actually do the work.

R.E.Brune years ago told me that he would sometimes salvage old Ramirez and retop them. I do not know if he represented that they were retopped Ramirez, or if he simply put his label. The guitar is really no longer a Ramirez if it is retopped, in my opinion. In this example, it may be more valuable than a new Ramirez.