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Here's a little trick I like to use for levelling an individual fret. You know how annoying it can be when you think you've got em all just right, then realize you've got one stray that's out of line. Instead of getting out the long file and messing up the other frets, I use this. It's just a block of hardwood with three pieces of sandpaper and two sided tape. The outside 'rails' are grit side in, only the middle piece is grit out. All you do is run it back and forth in line with the frets, straddling the high fret. In a few short seconds, the high spots are removed, and the block keeps the paper in line with the fret plane so you don't go too low. Of course, this only works on a single high fret on the assumption that the frets either side are correct. It's a timesaver, for me...


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Great tip! Thanks for sharing it with us!

Alex

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Hmmm ...IME, fretdressing for ultimate playability is only valid once the guitar is strung up and under string tension.

At the stage at which the pictured guitar is, all you need to be concerned about is that the frets are properly seated.

The fret dressing comes later.

The way I do things, that is not correct. I have done many refret jobs and I always level the frets before stringing it up. It doesn't make much sense to me to leave the frets uneven and string it up only to remove them. After it is strung up the only thing to do is adjust the truss rod to set the relief. Maybe you do it differently but I think most people level the frets just as meddlingfool does.

@meddlingfool, Thanks for the tip, I have a small 3" piece of a broken file that I have used for years for that same thing but I always end up having to clean up the surrounding frets. Next time I need it I will remember your idea.

Cheers,
Bob

A good way to do it thanks
Should be mentioned that before doing this, the fret should be stabilized generally with CA wicked under it.
The reason it is high is generally that it is loose

I must admit that I usually level under simulated string tension and if high frets need to be addressed use the L or U extruded AL bar trick after strung up. This idea could easily be adapted to that technique as well, in fact I am going to do that. Cool idea' thanks much!

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

No need for *simulated* string tension, Trevor ... fret dressing under actual string tension is perfectly feasible.

One of the things that I did not like about only building and not doing repairs is that many of the operations that are important for either pursuit when one is only a builder only one gains experience and the improvement and lessons that come from experience occasionally when a new build is at the stage that it needs the specific operation. Translation - unless you build em like there is no tomorrow in terms of production output you won't get much fret work experience...

A couple of things:

First Jeff's comments about loose frets are important. Instead of attempting to address a high fret in isolation why not eliminate any high and/or loose frets in the first place? This means looking at how you install frets, how you glue them, you do glue them don't ya, and all that this includes such as slotting the board, cleaning out slots for refrets, clamping etc.

A simple unseated fret can be reseated, clamped, glued and then addressed. Addressing the fret loose or not properly seated is not addressing the real issue and only addressing the symptom... You will also be removing far more material from the high fret than is necessary/

I was never a fan of the idea of addressing fret leveling in isolation. What I mean more specifically is that I address all frets at the same time in the leveling process believing that we, builders and repair folks, need to attempt to see the fret plane as a string sees it and in it's totality.

A very common occurrence on Lutherie forums is someone with knowledge and chops publishes a method to accomplish something. His/her method may include 10 steps and 8 processes. Two years later when someone brings up the method 9 steps and 7 processes are often missing....

The Turner fret leveler which is what some are referring to here or a 4ish" piece of "L" shaped stock with sand paper on the bottom was never intended to be a fret leveling solution for new builds. Rick was Gerry Garcia's tech for years (and survived..... ) and as such needed to be armed with creative solutions that would permit the show to go on. This means road-fixes, quick, effective solutions for common problems that could be done in a Marriott hotel room or in the back stage area of an arena. Rick did not have access to a Stew-Mac neck jig or any other iteration of this idea.

For my own new builds and countless fret dresses and refrets that we do we address the fret plane as a whole with long leveling beams. There are two schools of thought regarding addressing the fret plane under string tension or not. I'm in the not camp and see neck jigs as a crutch for folks who never learned how to do a proper fret dress. Sorry Stew-Mac, with 1,000 ringing endorsements I suspect that they will cut me some slack for a once in a while less than glowing review of one of their products. We also have a neck jig, it's cluttered with crap since we never need it....

Last fall we had a customer who is a pro player and a jazz guy too. No names here obviously but he wanted and needed (for his style) action of 2/64th" for the high e and 3/64th" for the low e. That's pretty low.... and on a Les Paul too. But this player could pull it off and was good enough that not only did he know what he wanted but he could clearly benefit from it too.

Plek machine you might say? Not this time because not only are there folks out here who see neck jigs as a crutch there are also folks out here who will claim to be capable of a higher degree of fret leveling accuracy than a PLEK. Let's face it too this is not by any means an absurd claim, a PLEK is only a machine that is only capable of doing what we humans tell it to do granted faster and it never asks for a raise though....

Long story short he got his 2 - 3 action and loved it and is now a fan. No PLEK, no neck jig, no simulated string tension just good ole fashioned manual fret dressing.

Regarding that loose fret we have another David Collins tool that uses a spring loaded punch that has been modified to be grooved for the fret crown. Place it on a high fret and fire the thing off by applying pressure and it seats a loose fret, fret end, etc. Clamp and glue and Bob's your uncle and you just did all of this in a couple of minutes. Then and only then when all frets are secured to the board well AND fully seated do we do the fret dress.

Regarding fret dressing the long leveling beams are the ticket and have done countless jobs for us. We make our own but you can also purchase these too. SM has them but they are pricey and you are limited to the lengths that they sell.

Our friend Murray here on the OLF also makes them and sells them for much less and you can find Murray's excellent offering here: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TECHNOFRET-Advanced-Fret-Leveling-System-/180677811948

Later this year we will be offering a class in set-up for builders. We have been asked to do this and make this offering by a number of you. It's also the very same class that I took 8 years ago and very much contributed to me making a successful career change to being a full time Luthier.

We will address the stuff that a builder has to do for final set-up and assembly that will make or break if your instrument has the playability and "feel" that a prospective client will bond and fall in love with. It will be a one weekend class at our shop in beautiful Ann Arbor where there is a LOT to do if folks want to bring a significant other (there's even more to do if you don't.... ) (I didn't really say that.... ). You will bring a guitar that is ready to be set-up and we will cover final set-up and you will actually get hands-on experience setting up the instrument in a structured, systematic manner. No more guessing..... exactly what I wanted 8 years ago and was fortunate enough to receive.

Let us know if interested. We are the sorts who would rather do a very few things very well than lots of things lousy.... So class sizes will be small, 4 at a time with two instructors on site.

I am seeing one thing the concerns me
Why level a fretboard that is not on the guitar ? That is a waist of time and energy as you do this on final assembly. You don't know how that fretboard will lay on the neck until it is on the guitar. You don't need to level frets under tension either but you do want to prep the fretboard the best you can before fretting. I learned very early that the best fretting is done on the assembled guitar. You don't know what the neck will do under load .

My process is this.
once the neck has been set I attach the fretboard. I then level the fretboard. I will then set in the frets and do my finish work. When the guitar is assembled and I am setting the bridge I can address the frets. There are many ways to dress but depending on the truss rod I may do it a number of ways. A compressiong fretting is done different than a 1 way adjustable and different on a 2 say rod.

in a one way I do want a little tension on the neck. I do this with a weight , I can then adjust the truss rod and level , In the case of a non adjustable I will add the weight and fret the neck in such a way so I can control the back bow. I won't level these frets for about 2 weeks under string load to get the barbs full time to seat.

The better the board is prepped the better you can get the action. It isn't uncommon to get a 1 1/2 2 1/2 action . Martin specs are a bit high to me but many can play a 2-3 action and feel comfortable.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

A modified center punch is a great idea... I'm going to try this next time I have a stubborn fret for sure

John I don't think that the board is off the guitar in either of the pics. I do agree with you that unless you are Mario P. and using a highly structured method leveling and fretting the board off the guitar is not a good practice.

Your specs caught my attention though where you indicate that it's not "uncommon" to get "1 1/2 2 1/2 action." That's VERY uncommon and as such let's define terms.

My specs that I posted are in 64th inches. Typically in Luthier speak the high e is listed first with the low e second. So with Martin specs for a Dr*ad which are with lights on it 4 and 6 what this refers to is 4/64th" for the high e measured at the 12th fret and 6/64th" for the low e also and always measured at the 12th. For Dr*ads with mediums 5 - 7 is more typical.

Are you speaking in 32nds of an inch because your "2-3 action" that you attribute to Martin is correct if you are speaking in 32nds. If you are indeed speaking in 64th I'd like to see you get buzz/rattle free action of 1 1/2 2 1/2 again always measured at the 12th and in 64th inches.

My guess is that you must mean 32nds of an inch otherwise your not uncommon 1 1/2 2 1/2 would be my 1.5/64th inch for the high e and 2.5/64th inch for the low e measured at the 12th and represents an action that would be nearly impossible to play or achieve.

We can always speak in millimeters if you wish too.... Makes no difference to me....

Yeah it works great. Make the part with the grove in it that contacts the fret crown out of something soft metal wise and polish it up to avoid scratching the uppty fret.

Martin calls a 2-3 spec and that would be 32 Martin spec is a 5/64 ( 2 1/2) and 7/64 on bass 3 1/2
That is with Mediums

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John,

This is on a guitar with the neck attached. I profile the FB as one of the last steps, after it has been bolted tight with the tongue glued down, using one of Jean's cast off machines.(dearly bought)

Hesh,

I guess it's actually a good distinction to make about when to use this. My rule of thumb for using this is that if you will take enough off the top of the fret to require crowning, it's not the right solution. I also don't use it for popped fret ends or loose frets, that's a different scenario.

I use this on new fret jobs on newly surfaced fingerboards. I very very rarely use a fret leveling file to bring the fret tops down (Only when I muffed the hammering, which can happen from time to time).

Basically, with a perfect fingerboard I don't feel it's necessary. Hammer the frets in real nice and they will be level and in plane with the fretboard. I use the rocker to find any slightly high ones and then hammer them into submission. Sometime though, no matter how much coercion, they will not go absolutely level, and that's when this comes in handy. Once everything is even, I take a beam with 240 and sand across the frets till a small flat spot is on each, then polish with 800 going up and down the fingerboard, making sure there is about a 1/32 facet or less across the fret, then steel wool to smooth it out and shine it up.

But yeah, this is not how to get around fixing a loose fret end, that all starts with the hammering...

Oh, and I set my action .090 bass, .070 treble, a good starting point unless otherwise requested...

One thing I also do is chamfer the slot . The drawing process doesn't have sharp corners and sometimes that radius off the tang and the crown can hold the fret off the board.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Oh, please God ...no ... can we speak in .001" ?

Great tip, Hesh. Would the spring loaded tool be modified from one of these guys ? http://www.woodpeck.com/springtools.html

I'm glad you provided the translation. I'm curious--what language was the original in? Do you proof-read your set-ups?

Just giving you a hard time, Hesh. Your shop photos always make me feel insecure about my own comfortable squalor. I'm happy to find an area where you're untidy.

I'm obsessive about frets, set-ups, and guitar work generally, but I get pretty sloppy in shop hygiene.

I use a small three corner file to chamfer the slot too, three swipes and it's good. If you look at the various wires available with a loop you will see that Jescar wire has the cleanest, sharpest transition from the tang to the underside of the fret and it's much more of a right angle with little in the way of a fillet. Since we only use Jescar wire liking the quality control and consistency a great deal the chamfering for us is more for the next person who has to refret the thing some day and an effort to permit the frets to be pulled without chipping up the board.

For other brands of wire like Dunlap, which I think sucks...., that filet is much more pronounced and the chamfering does help seat the fret as well.

It does not take much of a chamfer to do the trick. As such I actually draw my 3 corner file toward me and not away finding that less aggressive filing also avoids chipping the slot edge.

It's kind of funny to me these days because when I describe this stuff I find myself thinking in terms of the exact tools that I use and have. I've grown fond of some of my tools, not so much of others.... Regardless there is a real "touch" opportunity in this trade to develop some skills with these tools and that suits me fine. Good tools are great things!

Eric when I reread my first sentence last evening I remember saying to myself WTF..... So I'm sorry about that it is a terrible sentence in all respects....

No worries and I deserve a hard time for that one!

Regarding my shop my dirty little secret is that I Photoshop the dirt out of my pics.....

I am a jescar fan. all I use

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

I've used the Stewmac stuff for a long time. I got a sample of the Jescar, but while it's tang is the same, the barbs are wider requiring a larger slot. I wasn't interested in sourcing a good .025-.026 saw, so I never bothered.

My biggest problem is seating frets at a consistent height.
I plan to buy a real fret hammer.
Any preference of regular or dead blow type?
dan

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I use three different hammers. The main one is the acrylic head hammer. The end I use has been carefully sanded to be round slightly on the end, not flat, very important. The stewmac dead blow hammer is what I use to finish the ends of the frets. The big metal hammer, also rounded and buffed so as to not marr the frets, only comes into play if a fret is being very very stubborn. It has been affectionately dubbed 'Persuador'.

Here's how I do it. Carefully break the edge of the fingerboard with sandpaper, I like to see a 1/32" bevel along the edge. This prevents finish from chipping at the fret ends. Bevel your slots, if you like.

Here's the important bit. Start with the fret having a smaller radius than the fingerboard. You want both ends touching, but not the middle. Carefully and lightly tap one end a little way in. Do not try to get it all the way down. Hold the end you just seated down very firmly and seat the other end a bit, again not all the way. You really want to prevent the fret from see sawing back and forth in the slot, it will chip the slot and lose it's ability to hold. Continue back and forth til both ends are seated, then walk the hammer back and forth, hitting firmly but not hard. It's not a nail, you're not trying to bang it in, you're trying to coax it gently down into the slot. Try to at no point change the shape of the fret or hit it so hard that it loses the radius or kinks. As you move the hammer across the board, change the angle of the hammer to be always hitting as square to to face of the board as you can. Always make sure the ends are lower than the middle. Go back and forth til it's all seated nicely. If you do it like this, your fret ends should never be loose or lifted. Use your fret rocker to find any slightly high ones and get em down. Once they're all level, take the hard end of the dead blow hammer and slightly, very slightly, overbend the overhang. If you go too far, you have to grind too much of the fingerboard away making the ends look clean. Just a few degrees more tilt than if it were square to the board. With practice, you should be able to get the frets even enough so that on a newly surface board, you don't need to grind them down leveling to need the crowning file. Basically, easy does it!

I use three different hammers. The main one is the acrylic head hammer. The end I use has been carefully sanded to be round slightly on the end, not flat, very important. The stewmac dead blow hammer is what I use to finish the ends of the frets. The big metal hammer, also rounded and buffed so as to not marr the frets, only comes into play if a fret is being very very stubborn. It has been affectionately dubbed 'Persuador'.

Here's how I do it. Carefully break the edge of the fingerboard with sandpaper, I like to see a 1/32" bevel along the edge. This prevents finish from chipping at the fret ends. Bevel your slots, if you like.

Here's the important bit. Start with the fret having a smaller radius than the fingerboard. You want both ends touching, but not the middle. Carefully and lightly tap one end a little way in. Do not try to get it all the way down. Hold the end you just seated down very firmly and seat the other end a bit, again not all the way. You really want to prevent the fret from see sawing back and forth in the slot, it will chip the slot and lose it's ability to hold. Continue back and forth til both ends are seated, then walk the hammer back and forth, hitting firmly but not hard. It's not a nail, you're not trying to bang it in, you're trying to coax it gently down into the slot. Try to at no point change the shape of the fret or hit it so hard that it loses the radius or kinks. As you move the hammer across the board, change the angle of the hammer to be always hitting as square to to face of the board as you can. Always make sure the ends are lower than the middle. Go back and forth til it's all seated nicely. If you do it like this, your fret ends should never be loose or lifted. Use your fret rocker to find any slightly high ones and get em down. Once they're all level, take the hard end of the dead low hammer and slightly, very slightly, overbend the overhang. If you go too far, you have to grind too much of the fingerboard away making the ends look clean. Just a few degrees more tilt than if it were square to the board. With practice, you should be able to get the frets even enough so that on a newly surface board, you don't need to grind them down leveling to need the crowning file. Basically, easy does it!