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I have question regarding using a hand plane to bring down material.

I tried it today on a walnut back. It had waves, dips and humps all over. How do you determine which is the flat 'zero' point? I scraped a bit here and there, flipped it, repeat, etc, and eventually got a sort of flat surface except for a section on the edge of one side which I carved too much out of. Took the bulk off from about 1/4 or so down to .120 then into the sander. Can't say it saved any time, but a lot less dust and a touch more satisfying.

So, how do you account for cupping and warpage?

The Plane itself will even the surface out, partly through taking off the high spots and partly through pressing down any areas that are lifting. Flip the boards a few times. The chances are that you will produce a crowned surface, you would have to work pretty hard (or use the wrong Plane) to produce a surface that was hollow. When it's near final thickness you will need to measure and mark the areas that need to be thinned more.
I think it's all in the Cumpiano book and in a fair amount of detail as well.

I use a longer plane to flatten at least 14 in jack LV or L/N

Any recommendations for which plane is right for the job of thicknessing panels?

I had at it with a Stanley #5, and it got the job done, but I'm not sure if its the optimum tool for the job. I was looking at a Veritas bevel up plane.

What is the right tool for that job?

A Stanley No.5. Perfectly fine. Just make sure the blade is super sharp, chipbreaker fits without clogging.
If you want to turn it into a 'finishing' Plane you might need to do a bit of work on it but otherwise try it, it could work good enough as is.

Thanks!

I thicknessed a back last week using a #4 smoother(my favorite size plane) I was feeling lazy and didn't want to break out my little thickness sander. I did it much as Todd described, except I finished it up with an orbital sander.
Many #5's have the mouth set too wide for smoothing, so you may need to adjust the frog to close it up to get optimum performance, but once set it should work like a charm.

A 5, 5 1/2, 6 or Veritas low angle jack all work well. Don't be scared of planing at 90 degrees to the grain, either. Also, if you want even thickness it helps if your work surface (auxiliary board and/or bench) needs to be flat. Real flat.

Otherwise, Section 6.1 of the White book.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

I like to use a 5 1/2 as I like the extra width and weight. The key things I have learnt being fairly new to all this is.
Make sure the blade is really sharp, and resharpen during the thicknessing if required
Change the direction of your planing as mentioned before 45 and 90 degrees to the grain.
Practice. As with all and tool skills it does take some practice.

Sent from my Amazon Kindle Fire HD using Tapatalk

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Nick

Follow my musings on getting started in luthiery http://www.tredwellinstruments.co.uk

Planning discussion always seem to start and end with hair splitting aboiut smoothers and jacks. Try to work a 1/4" hard rosewood set with a smoother and at the end of the day you'll notice you are far from done, you'll hate planes, your life too, and rush to order a drum sander.

What you need to start with is a scrub plane. You can buy a very nice LN or LV, or at least one of their blades and set it in a wooden body. On easy grain you can even get chips 1/32 thick without a sweat. If the grain is difficult (interlocked for example), go at an angle and if really figured or gnarly, set it light and go precisely across the grain. A scrub plane takes off material several times faster than a smoother, with less hand effort and it might be as fast as a drum. You just need to learn how to use it as it can do a lot of damage.

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I use a #3 and a #4 followed by a #112 to thickness all my plates and rims. The key to getting good results is more about having the planes set up very well and technique more so than the actual sizes of the planes you use. For highly figured wood I put a toothed blade in the no 4.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

"Planning discussion always seem to start and end with hair splitting aboiut smoothers and jacks. Try to work a 1/4" hard rosewood set with a smoother and at the end of the day you'll notice you are far from done, you'll hate planes, your life too, and rush to order a drum sander."

Ed asked which is "best" to which we all offered our opinions, most of us saying almost any well tuned bench plane would work. I planed a 1/4 inch thick EIR back set to 1/10 of an inch in less than a half hour (at a leisurely amateur pace) with a bog standard #4. I'm no handplane or sharpening fanatic, but if it's semi sharp and set right, removing a few millimeters over a couple of square feet doesn't take that long.
The little Ryobi 16/32 drum sander may be a bit quicker and require less thought and effort, but for one back wasn't worth the hassle. (I use it outdoors and have to run an extension cord, it was cold and dark, waa,waa, etc. <g>)

I've been using hand Planes for longer than I care to remember. It didn't take long for me to realise that there was a quicker way to get from 6 mm's to 2.5 mm's. Using a smoother (set up as a smoother) takes forever. As Alex states, the key is to use a scrub in the early stages. The one I use isn't technically a scrub plane though. I use a woodie (metal No. 4 will do), use a wide mouth setting and put a fair amount of camber on the blade. Chipbreaker is set back. I refer to it as a gentle scrub. You want this to be a fairly light weight plane, so a Stanley No.4 is fine. Trying to hog off material with a heavy Plane is tiring. No need for the heavier expensive Planes. After the scrub I switch to a No. 4 or No. 5 but set to take much less of a shaving, near full blade width. It's not a smoother. It's just designed to remove the crude finish of the scrub plane and get things nearer to final thickness.
Finally I employ the smoother. This is the one where you need the Plane to be set up to a very high standard. Sole needs to be flat (or flat in the right areas), tight mouth, set very fine and chipbreaker set extremely close to the edge of the blade. These are the factors that you can control to overcome tearout. I would also include a fiendishly sharp blade but that also applies to ALL Plane blades. Such a plane can work Spruce such that hitting the stuff with 400G abrasive would result in a worse surface. You would struggle to get that finish with a bookmatched Top with runout though. Plane one side of the board (in the correct direction) and the Spruce should have a perfectly smooth sheen. You should be able to go straight to varnish. That is the level of finish that the smoother can achieve.

Sorry if I sounded a bit off, but I find it frustrating that so few people know what a scrub can do. I worked a few years without one and when I first tried it (cost me just the blade set in a old wooden smoother i had around) it was a bit of a revelation.
Indian rosewood, if not interlocked, can be very fun and easy to work with a sharp 4 or 5, but it still takes too long. Try a scrub on it, it is like magic. If you have a really tough wood, dense and/or gritty or hard and figured, the task becomes very difficult and you'll find yourself spending more time sharpening than planing. Again, a scrub going light across the grain is the best answer.

Scraper planes also get little word, and they are fabulous to have. I use a LN (the medium size one with thick blade) and I've found a myriad uses for it.

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Build log

Brian in Hummelstown +1, Michael N in UK +1..... The only thing to add is the use of a light coat of minwax or butchers wax on the sole to cut friction.... a big help with hand saw blades AND bandsaw and blades and guides for resawing. Your bandsaw will love you.

Why do I sense an expensive trip to Lee Valley coming up?

No idea. . . but you don't have to if you don't want to. There are cheaper alternatives. LN, LV, Clifton are extremely fine tools, nice things to own but you don't have to spend so much to get extremely good results.

Question, if I may? I have two jack planes. One a Stanley #5 , and a Millers Fall equivalent. Both of them have the standard blades. I have thickneseed with these for a long time, with good results, but it does take a bit of time sometimes.
I was wondering if I could take the Millers Fall, put a curved blade in it, and use it as a scrub plane. I think the answer is yes. Can anyone confirm this?

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

I've had the LV scrub plane for a few years, and to me, it is worth the money. Lumber prep is pretty quick, even with difficult grain.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

Yes you can. I wouldn't call it the ideal Plane for such a task but it will certainly work. Just camber the blade a little more than you would normally, set the chipbreaker back, set the frog back. Don't forget that the sole is flat (unlike a real scrub) so don't go too heavy on the camber. It's only meant to take a thickish shaving with a relatively narrow width. Unless you are using Back wood that comes overly thick (sometimes happens) you shouldn't need to take it off in lumps. Real scrubs can be like a controlled adze.

Thanks, Michael. Much appreciated.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

Here's a way to make a good scrub plane from a standard #5:

Purchase an after-market blade that is thicker than standard issue (LN, LV or others)
Using this blade, set the plane up as a fine smoother (frog adjusted for tight mouth, flat bottom etc. etc.)
Swap back to the standard blade, sharpened to a shallow crescent, as per a scrub, which will now operate with a wider mouth due to the thinner blade.

Set the breaker appropriately for each blade. You now have a panel plane and a scrub plane depending on the blade you use and how it's sharpened. Can be done with a 5 1/2, too, but in scrub mode you trade depth of cut for width of cut.

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Trevor Gore, Luthier. Australian hand made acoustic guitars, classical guitars; custom guitar design and build; guitar design instruction.

http://www.goreguitars.com.au

Scrub planes will make quick work of it if you know what you are doing. I consider myself an "Occasional" hand plane user - I use one when it is convenient rather than as the first tool I pick up. I have a #2,3,4 (actually 4 of them),5,6,and 7 bench planes, block planes, and a number of other specialty planes. But as often as I use a handplane for thicknessing I think a scrub plane might get me in trouble. Perhaps I'll curve the blade a bit on my least favorite #4 and see how I like it.

I believe we are overthinking this.

The goal is to remove as much material as we need to as quickly and easily as possible. A real scrub plane has a narrow, highly cambered blade and when used on big stock to get rid of a lot of wood, the chips look like the Frito's. This is clearly too aggressive for the amounts of wood we need to remove.

So just take the plane you have, open the throat, curve the blade a little, adjust it, and try it on a scrap.

I have a spare Stanley 9-1/2 block plane I use for a scrub on smaller stuff, but its light weight and lack of a tote makes it a chore for something the size of a back. For that, try a #3, or my favorite - a #5-1/4 which is the width of a 3 but a few inches longer. Use what you have or buy any $10 flea market plane and it will work fine as a scrub.

For soft wood and lots of removal I will use the blade right off the grinder - try that sometime.

Gee, planing eh,

well me learned how to flatten boards back in grade 7 shop class and truth of the matter is ...me don't remember
much except to say a 4 1/2 is me go to just before shoving the sucker through the thickness sander and being done with it.

blessings

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