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I completed an OM in May. I gave it to a local musician and worked with him to set it up in a way that he said was comfortable to play at the time. He uses medium Elixar strings, and plays both fingerstyle and also very heavily strums with a pick for high energy songs.
He said the action was getting a bit high, and I wanted to put a new nut on as he had to shim the low E to prevent buzzing. He also said there was some buzzing on a couple other strings but couldn't reproduce it when we got together.
I did the following (in this order):
Tightened the truss rod to allow a 0.008" card to just touch the strings at 7th fret with capo at fret 1 and fingering at 14

Set the nut up with clearances from first fret ranging from 0.018 on the low E, to about 0.013" on high E.

Did not adjust the saddle height as I had my target clearance of about 0.098" between low E and fret 12; and 0.078" between high E and fret 12.
When he played it after that, it wasn't buzzing anymore unless he really whaled on it and then it was more like a "dirty" sound that I've heard when someone plays that hard, and he said it was okay. But I emailed to see how it was performing for him and he said it isn't as comfortable to play as he wants, and he's actually back to using his Ovation because, even though it doesn't sound as good, it's set up well for him.

I've only done set ups on the 3 guitars I've completed, so I followed the formula that robbie O'brien suggests and which gives him good results. Since it did not give me good results, I'm wondering if there is some other issue. We're down to zero humidity and I know he's just using a soundhole humidifier, so maybe that's doing something (I built at between 35 and 40% RH). Could it already need a neck reset?
I don't know if it's possible to help me with this without you having your hands on the guitar, but any advice would be appreciated. I was thinking about paying a local luthier to guide me through an evaluation of the guitar and his setup routine, but thought I'd also see what the OLFers might have to say. As always, thanks for the help!

I don't measure the clearance I get at the nut, but this is what I do: I use a half pencil, sanded to half lengthwise so that when I lay it on the frets after I level and crown, it draws a line on the nut at the height of the frets. That is my target when I cut the slots. I usually get pretty close to having the same action as using a zero fret. I hope that makes sense. Usually, when people complain about a guitar being hard to play or uncomfortable, it is because of higher action in the first position versus high action at the 12th fret. Your action at the 12th fret seems spot on, so it might be the nut that is causing the issue. Hard to say without touching it. I don't have enough experience with the numbers alone.
Is the neck fatter than the ovation? Is the neck deeper at the nut than his ovation? Those numbers could also be problematic for him.

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PMoMC

I did the half-pencil trick, even though I used measurements based on Robbie's approach. The slots came pretty close to the line but if I remember correctly, they did not all hit the line. The first nut I made for him hit the line on each string and he complained of buzzing on the low E. He really plays hard with that pick, so maybe some small amount of buzzing is to be expected with a nice low action.
Good thought about the neck shape. I actually did the final neck carving with him there to feel it, and based the shape on the Ovation neck, so I don't know if that would be it. Thanks Tony!

I think your setup sounds fine at the nut. I would try lowering the action at the 12th fret to 92 mil or a little lower. A difference of 6 to 8 mil can make a big difference in the easy of playing. You can good a little closer at the 12th but if he strums hard you may not be able to go much closer. I would try tightening the truss rod up a little. I think you will find that you can lower the action at the 12th to 90 mil or so without changing the relief clearance much. I know some people think that is not a good practice, but if it gets the feel he is looking for, you can always change the saddle height or neck angle if you think you need to put some more relief back in the neck.

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EddieLee

I don't know if that was a typo or not. Did you mean .090, .070?
Those are the numbers I use at work as the factory standard. The .008 on each string at the 12th is a big difference...

.090 and .070 at the 12th fret. The .008 (thin business card) is the clearance for neck relief. Capo at 1, finger at 14, and slide a thin business card under the strings at about 6 or 7 fret. It just touches the bottom of the string between string and fret.

Have him bring both guitars over and set up your guitar to match the set up on the Ovation.

Hi, Beth,
I also use a trick that Robert Benedetto shows in his videos. Fret the strings between the third and fourth frets. That will obviously isolate the string length between the nut and the third fret. Then check your string heights above the first fret.
I don't know what the clearance measurement is, but the strings ought to be so close that a mere touch of your forefinger between frets one and two would make the string contact fret number one. Try it and see if you have one or two strings just a little higher than that. I find set ups to be pretty challenging and difficult, and I don't do enough of them to get routinely good at them until I've fiddled around with a couple of the strings. Furthermore, I don't know what others will think of this method, but it has worked for me. Even one slightly high string can make the whole thing feel wrong.
Patrick

You need more information. If he can't tell you what the difference is between the two guitars, you'll need to play both of them and figure it out.

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It should be 90-70 including the relief...trust me, that's a real noticeable difference.

Put the relief you need in, then adjust the saddle to 90-70.

The thought that action is too low and relief too much makes sense to me! I asked him if I could get both guitars at once and really see his preferred setup for myself.

Thanks, all!!!

For me I'd be following Filippo's lead. Make sure your frets are dead level. A bit less relief. Set the nut slots to fret level or plus just a tad. Fretting between the second and third fret and string should almost touch at first fret. Hope you get it solved.
Tom

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What style of music does he play? It sounds like he's a cowboy chords guy that doesn't go too far up the neck. That type of playing dictates a little different setup, the action at the 12th fret is almost irrelevant, but the nut is critical. If he's used to a setup that favors the cowboy chords, even a perfect "standard" setup will not feel as good to him.
It's something to look for when you compare the two guitars.
Also, where the string is played affects where the maximum excursion above the fretboard is located, so picking at different distances from the bridge can cause/eliminate buzz. Helpful when you're tracking down a buzz.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

He's a pro musician with a few styles. Check out Ryanhood. He is Ryan Green. He plays all over the neck.

Oh, I forgot to tell you all that he had the guitar tuned a half step lower than standard, and said that his band mate likes to play in that tuning. Does that change the setup for any of you?

In that case, I'll have to agree with Filippo's assessment, too much relief and maybe too low at the 12th.
Mediums tuned down half a step shouldn't cause problems.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

I thought Filippo was talking about being too low at the nut, not the 12th fret. Filippo, could you clarify? Thanks

Thanks for stopping back in Filippo. I will keep those guidelines in mind. He's going to give me both guitars the first week of November. I'll have him hang around and play a bit so we can have the talk. He has not been too specific and I am inexperienced enough that I don't know all the right questions to ask. But the information I've gotten here will help a lot. Elixer sponsors him, so he can get any strings he wants for free. Maybe I'll try to get him to try lights.
'Course, that means I have to do a different setup.

Todd, who is Brian Kimsey?

I play the New Medium (or True Medium) gauge strings. The top and bottom Es and the B strings are Medium gauge and the rest are lights. I find it a good compromise. You can hit them harder but they play a lot easier. GHS has them in the LJ Signature set and John Pearse has them. I wish more companies made sets that gauge. If I want to use another brand, I order a light set and a single of 17 and 13 gauge for the top E and B. I do not worry about the low E. It does not seem to make that much difference to me. Just Strings has singles for most strings now.

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EddieLee

If Elixer makes sets like that, I think he'd be willing to try them, but I don't think he'd change string brands since they're his sponsor.

This process works for me on most guitars: All of my numbers below assume good fretwork. Start with relief--it can affect final nut height. The business card measurement for relief is a good starting point as well. I have to tweak it to either side a bit depending on the guitar and on the player--too little or too much can result in string buzz between the fret and the nut at some positions. It can be tweaked again a little when everything else is done without affecting the action a lot--tweak it a lot and you do affect the action. The flat pencil trick for the nut is a good starting point for nut height but the pencil line can't be thin enough to be the final determinant. When fretted between the second and third frets, I like the clearance under the string at the first fret to be between .003 and .006"--that's between one and two thicknesses of 20lb copy paper used as a feeler gauge. The closer to .003" you can get it, the silkier it will feel to the player. Below that, it will buzz. For action, after the nut is set and the relief is close, I go for 5/64 to 4/64", bass to treble, clearance between the 12th fret and the bottom of the string. For a heavy strummer, I add 1/64". This works for me and is usually the lowest action I can get away with, although occasionally with a parlor-sized guitar, I've had success with 4/64 to 3/64, bass to treble. Someday, I'll figure out why smaller clearances work with the smaller instrument. 1/64" difference in action is usually detectable by the player; much less isn't.

Hi Beth, Todd meant to write Bryan Kimsey .... a quick Google search will reveal all about Bryan ...a most knowledgeable man when it comes to acoustic repair and set up work.

So I got a look at the Taylor, and some measurements on that. Then I examined the OM I made for him. No buzzing, but too much relief, and overall too-high action. I think the guy that installed the Baggs for him may have ground a bit extra off the saddle bottom trying to get the action a bit lower (that was done right after strings first went on, so I'm sure he didn't do any other adjusting at nut or truss rod at that time. This has left me without much ability to take more off the saddle, and if that seems necessary I'll have to try to reset the neck.
I rocked all the frets in three places and found that the work was level above the 14th fret, but there were a couple high frets (or so I thought) higher. When I looked at them, it seemed the 15th, 17th and 20th were high because they were no longer fully seated…I could see the upper part of the barbs on the tang at the very center of each. So I took those out, re fretted them and have leveled again. When I did this, I realized there is a body hump at the 15th fret.
What causes this? Per Robbie's video class, I glued the top at 30' except for the transverse brace which was glued flat. I've since seen reference in another thread of the practice of putting a small radius on the upper bout (I think a couple guys referenced using 28' on the body and 60' on the upper bout). I'm wondering if gluing the upper bout flat is responsible for the hump.
Not sure what to do about it (the hump). I haven't finished dressing the frets and re-stringing to see what I've accomplished so far.

You can't discount the psychological factor either. You need both guitars in front of you. I can't tell you how many times people have told me that a guitar has a problem that their other guitar doesn't have, only to find out that they just didn't notice that their other guitar was doing the same. They were just more familiar with their old guitar and more used to how it felt and sounded.

When people get a new guitar or have one worked on, they're scrutinizing it to death and notice things they otherwise would overlook.

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The dreaded body/neck hump:
Could be too much 'set' in the neck
could be corrected by a tapered shim under the fretboard extention (A very good tutorial in the tutorial section... maybe by Todd Stock??)
since you have unseated frets in the upper registers, it may be possible to remove all the frets. re-level the fingerboard, and take out the 'hump', re-fret ( maybe to include cutting fret slots deeper at the hump region) ...

...underbuilt/inadequate upper transverse brace...?