Official Luthiers Forum!

For a former employee I like to think I've been rather supportive of products from a company that unceremoniously canned me. However, per an email I received today from the VP of Human Resources after a post to the corporate Facebook page belonging to Franklin International/Titebond caught the attention of the company's Senior Vice President of Operations:

"I’m also requesting that any future postings by you on Franklin’s page, as well as postings on other industry-related pages in which you reference Franklin and/or Titebond, include the following disclaimer:

Disclaimer: I am in no way affiliated with Franklin International or any of their associated brands, and my comments do not necessarily reflect the views of Franklin International."

I personally am of the opinion that this is unreasonable, and don't think that anyone here thinks for a second that I'm expressing the views of a former employer... Especially when I suggest a competitor's product instead. I plan to continue giving relevant advice as I see fit. At the same time, it disgusts me to see a company trying to control all dialogue to this extent. Despite already having my phone number and current email address on file, not to mention tools through Facebook to directly contact me otherwise-- They instead elected to inform my Father, who is a current employee, about their displeasure with me while asking for my contact information. There is no way I would imagine they would try to screw him over, but that's moderately intimidating behavior to say the least. Considering I'm well into adulthood, it's quite inappropriate for them to make such a move.

As I have stated in the past, I'm a big fan of full disclosure. Particularly when something doesn't seem right. Feel free to ask questions if you have any. I just wanted to get this out in the open. One would expect most companies would appreciate free expert level advice. After being unemployed for over a year after losing my job with them, it should be even more surprising that I generally still recommend their products. It's a strange world we live in.

I encourage you to go with hot hide glue and feel for the invasion of your privacy.
Tim

Unfortunately they're a corporation, and would likely screw anyone over, so I wouldn't take lightly the threat to your father's well being.

Also, you could use a pseudonym, like "TheGlueWhisperer" or something, and they can't say crap about what you post.

As a former employee of corporations, I find it handy.

_________________
Old growth, shmold growth!

There are so many people with my name around the web that it's difficult to nail me down without some serious effort. Fortunately my Father is already far enough into his career that they are more concerned about when he will choose to retire, and how to deal with the knowledge gap he will leave behind, than trying to mess with him. Also, the only place they are aware of my posting is on their Facebook corporate page, and I'm pretty sure they are on thin ice with respect to crossing the line into the realm of harassment. At the moment I'm still shocked that they actually sent me an email. Until now their M.O., especially among management, has consisted of only verbal communications to avoid a paper trail... After all, that's how my boss managed to compliment my work up until the day I was fired when he threw me under the bus for a report he wrote that another division found unsatisfactory.

I'm working hard every day to make my final separation from working within the corporate world. It's getting closer every day!

My apologies for any venting. That's not my main intention.

As a former employee, and therefore not under even the slightest obligation to them, you should quite cheerily be able to tell them to stick it. It is, after all, their métier....
(Oh boy, a glue joke...)

Do and say whatever you want. Personally, I wouldn't be above writing the VP of Ops back and telling him to stuff his disclaimer. There isn't a thing he can do to you as an ex-employee who offers opinions of Titebond products...unless you signed some kind of severance contract which precludes your doing so.

They can TRY to intimidate you...which they apparently just attempted. They can even send you nasty, threatening letters from their legal dept....but the only thing you actually need to pay attention to is a court order. Anything on their letterhead you can just throw away.

You COULD contact an attorney just to discuss their using your father's employment as leverage against you. Of course, your father would have to be a party to all this and agree with that idea...but the way you describe it makes them sound fairly diabolical.

Oh...I got stories.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

Some companies upon hiring have you sign forms about not disclosing manufacturing methods... try to remember if you signed anything like that, too.

I think they could make that request on Franklin's own pages, but "other industry-related pages" is a bit vague.

Severance only prevents me from discussing the details of my severance package. Sensing a lack of comfort from my father was the only reason I didn't seek a wrongful termination suit in the first place. There were a lot of verbal promises and reassurance that I had a strong future ahead of me and nothing to be concerned about, although I predicted the final outcome exactly as it finally played out. Bob Behnke, was hired as a technical specialist and assurance was given from all levels of management that he would not take over the tech division but that he was to assist in the process of grooming me to assume management of the department. Informing someone who becomes boss that their replacement is already held in high esteem can't be a good idea, especially when I did my best to demonstrate his deficiencies whenever possible when I was still under the impression that he would be stuck at my level. He lasts about 3 years at every job he has had in his career, and my best guess is that he got rid of me with the hope that he would last a bit longer.

Despite being eligible to re-hire, I was always blown off when resumes were submitted. When their Facebook page was launched last year I decided I would have some fun and answer some questions because I was hoping to land something in adhesives at another nearby company such as Elmer's or Ashland. Very shortly thereafter I was contacted by HR and asked to at least "give them a chance to answer first because it looks bad when someone else answers a question before we do" and also told to make it clear that I was not an employee to avoid confusion. Anyone who knows how to run a corporate FB page should understand how easy it is to set permissions so that all answers appear to come from the company even if someone else is actually answering. This would explain why geniuses such as Bob-o created extra profiles on FB in violation of their terms of service to answer with his name since he is their self-proclaimed "glue guru" and will claim to have decades of experience with adhesives and woodworking if you ask. They never provided a copy of their request in the form of a letter as I requested. After 9 months I finally decided that pushing the right buttons would get the response I was after. So I included this disclaimer with my last post:

"(Disclaimer: I am an independent expert in the field of adhesives and sealants and am in no way affiliated with Franklin or any of their associated brands. Franklin International has requested that I state this in order to avoid confusing any of you... I was answering questions faster than they were, free of charge, to keep myself sharp and apparently that's a bad thing. Is it normal for a "guru" to have only two years of experience in a field and no experience in woodworking since 8th grade shop class? Or is full disclosure off limits too?)"

It worked and elicited the following response:
"The wording in this disclaimer reflects very poorly on every technical service employee in both divisions at Franklin. In fact, it puts the entire organization in bad light. I understand you may well have lingering frustrations with certain employees at Franklin, but airing those frustrations publicly on a forum such as this is inappropriate at best. I’m respectfully asking that you cease from engaging in similar dialogue in the future."

I actually thought I did a good job of targeting Bob-o as specifically as possible. Since I'm an ethical man, all of the statements I made were absolutely true. I've never been in the business of libel, but if I need to pick at a scab I can do it with the best.

With all of that being said, I strongly doubt my Dad would agree to get involved in any legal activities with me. However, their tactics run afoul of several items in Facebook's Terms of Service agreement including harassment and bullying among many other shady practices. They seem to be under the impression that they own their FB page, when in reality every bit of it belongs to FB and their rules are the only ones that matter. I have no idea why they don't just create their own forum to have complete control.

I'm toying with contacting an attorney to see what options might be at my disposal. It was certainly not among my expectations to find myself still unemployed after losing my job at the end of March 2012. They're more or less rubbing salt in my wounds. If there is a way to depose some key people before they have a chance to get their stories straight I am certain that they would rather tell the truth than run the risk of being caught perjuring themselves.

You sound like a button pusher, Zlurgh. Everything you are encouraging are the things my family members hope I will simply drop. But at the same time: If I really make things difficult for them and they did retaliate against my Dad, he would probably be happy to join in going after them to the full extent of the law.

The sooner I can get into what I enjoy, such as designing and building guitars, taking on cool contracts to make CNC pickup coil winders and manual winders, and preparing a line of absurdly versatile active pickups that could go so far as to control as many as five State Variable low-pass Filters that can change settings with the flip of a switch or via a MIDI trigger.

Thanks for the input. I know you're one person who experienced first hand that I was dang good at my job.

Jeff--

I'm in the clear as far as that stuff is concerned. I actually reported an incident following IWF last August when Bob disclosed a few trade secrets regarding how TB III is chemically able to pass Type I water resistance. It's easy to avoid discussing trade secrets. I had full formula level access, which almost no one at the company is given, so when I saw that a guy was spouting out details and mentioned a conversation with a technical personal from Franklin it was obvious who was to blame... But since I would have been the easy one to point a finger at as someone who was terminated 5 months prior I went out of my way to make sure I would not be a suspect. They apparently didn't care. I know there's one person in middle management who thought he would be a great hire and will most likely defend that choice until he finally screws up so catastrophically that they have no choice but to get rid of him (and that has been the case for every position Bob-o has held for the past 25 years or so. He told me about all of them one day.)

Thanks for thinking of that, though. Massive lawsuits await those who screw up on trade secret agreements!

For what its worth, my advice is forget them, drop it, and move on. Your dad's employment is at stake, do not take that lightly. I have seen far too many cases of employees being let go for the wrong reasons, and they never have much recourse. I've seen far too many 30 year men get laid off within spitting distance of retirement, all for a cost reduction. One thing that left me shaking my head over and over is the lost knowledge, and how the management that fired them simply did not care as they saw no value in their experience. (Yes, there is a reason we're in the shape we are today.)

The rules have changed. Many big corporations are no longer the sum total of the people who work there, but are now the shareholders and investors, with the top of the company making sure they are properly fed. Everyone else is temporary, in spite of what your employment says. i never worked at a plant where anyone at a department head position stayed more than 3 years, most less.

In my experience, company loyalty goes one way these days. You give, they take, you want, you go. So I just remember what I was told at my last layoff, after being reminded once again just what "AT WILL" means. I asked about a major project i had been working on, and who would continue the work, when my now former boss looked at me funny and said "You don't work here any more."

You don't work there any more, so forget them and move on. Just my opinion, from someone who's been there one time too many. And always remember: don't judge a company by what they did, or how long they've been in business; the only thing that matters is who is in charge today. Oh, and they all have really good lawyers.

_________________
Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

So umm Hugh,

whats all this venting got to do with building?

_________________
.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

In my opinion, Phil's advice is spot on.

_________________
George :-)

I didn't intend for much venting to take place. I've done my best to let people know when I was in the adhesives industry and when that stopped. Encountered some unexpected craziness over the past couple of days and figured it was worth announcing since my former employer has made such a stink.

I prefer designing, building, tinkering, and sharing what knowledge I have while learning from others about the things I don't know as much (or anything) about. My apologies if this has been an annoyance to anyone. The thread can be moved or deleted if it's in the way or bugging anyone immensely.

Hugh, there are many folks that have awful experiences dealing with terminations in the workplace. I had a very frustrating experience as well when I quit my job as a quality control chemist at a sunscreen factory. First of all, it is reasonable for Franklin to want to answer questions on their Facebook page and if someone else is coming and answering questions it can send mixed messages. I personally wouldn't be offended at all at their request to add a brief disclaimer to your postings that you don't work for Franklin. Yes, they might be total asses (at least, it seems like your boss was) but that doesn't mean that this request of theirs follows in the same trajectory. You could end your posts on their page with (Please Note that I am not a Franklin employee). As far as what you say on this forum - they have no authority over what you post - but on their Facebook page, I would show respect for the company and honor their request.

On a deeper and more personal note -- you are angry and I have no doubt that you were probably wronged. But the best thing you can do is move on and put aside your anger. Try to carry only positive feelings with you - life is simply too short to live in anger.

By the way, I think I speak for the OLF when I say that your knowledge of adhesives has been an incredibly useful resource for this community.

Best Regards,
Simon

A button pusher? Not sure what that means.

I've had a couple occasions to witness smarmy tactics by low-lifes who operate in the intimidate/settlement mode of ethics. I learned if you never back down from them they always go away...but it ticks me off something fierce when someone tries it on me. I think about the people on whom these tactics work and then realize some companies operate this way because they often DO work. Anymore...I tend to confront people once their poor behavior goes past a certain threshold.

If the VP is a friend of your dad's I can maybe understand him approaching your dad about this. If he's NOT a friend of your dad's then the approach was a tactic that can't be construed too many ethical ways. In either case, bringing your father into it appears manipulative.

I wouldn't expect your dad would want to mess around with law-suits either. I only mention seeing the attorney because I've always walked away from them knowing a little bit more about how the world actually works.

_________________
I read Emerson on the can. A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds...true...but a consistent reading of Emerson has its uses nevertheless.

StuMusic

What's the point of posting on their FB page anyway? It's the last thing that I would do if I was unceremoniously dumped.
Forget them and move on. We don't need Titebond, real hot hide glue is better.

I was really screwed over by a former employer....... It took a while to get over, but thats really whats best for you. Buddy of mine says "fine living is the best revenge" Forget them.

I can't speak for anyone else, but this was a step on my journey. It was after that last layoff that I decided to push my woodworking to the next level, and start building instruments.

_________________
Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

Hugh,

I highly recommend reading "The Lone Striker" by Robert Frost.

Then repeat over and over: there's a guitar that needs building...

_________________
Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

Hugh follow the motto of the IDF , don/t get made get even. By that I mean, the best revenge in life is living well ! move on and slowly try to forget these corporate turkey clones(gobble gobble gobbble) who tried to stiff you. Life is just too short.

Agreed , Why bother posting on anything they have out there . You can say what ever you like thats true . However it makes no sense to poke the bear , so stay off their sites.


SO Hows your Builds Comming Along !

_________________
The Shallower the depth of the stream , The Louder the Babble !
The Taking Of Offense Is the Life Course Of The Stupid One !
Wanna Leave a Better Planet for our Kids? How about Working on BETTER KIDS for our Planet !
Forgiveness is the ability to accept an apology that you will probably NEVER GET
The truth will set you free , But FIRST, it will probably Piss you Off !
Creativity is allowing yourself to make Mistakes, Art is knowing which ones to Keep !
The Saddest thing anyone can do , is push a Loyal Person to the point that they Dont Care Anymore
Never met a STRONG person who had an EASY past !
http://wiksnwudwerks.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/groups/GatewayA ... rAssembly/

go get some law

From a person who was a "Headhunter" for over 35 years, stop bad mouthing your former employer. It makes you look bad to all employers. No company worth their salt will hire a person known to speak poorly of a prior employer or their employees. What might they expect of you if they hire you and for some reason had to lay you off or fire you. It's a no win situation. I would recommend distancing yourself from the company by moving on to more productive efforts. You can't win the battle. They are the ones with the deep pockets to fund lawyers. Unless, of course, you are independently wealthy!

_________________
Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

Hey! Why you gotta make me look like the bad guy?

_________________
Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Thats the mean bear, not the warm, cuddly one.

Alex

_________________
"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker