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So, what is considered the best wood for a fret board, and why? And what is most commonly used?

Just curious, because my No. 1 build is now on hold, again, until I figure out how to get the fret board done. After cracking it last week, I have made numerous repairs, and learned a lot. Unfortunately, I am now in a situation where I am chasing my tail. creating new divots, fixing them, and by fixing them, creating new ones. Over and over.

I now realize that for a beginner, zircote was a mistake. And even though i have far too much time and money invested in this nice fret board, I am starting to wonder if I would be better off to (choke) give up, and make a new one out of something else.

Any more suggestions much appreciated!

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

Hi,

what kind of problems do you have with Ziricote? Ebony works quite close to Ziricote.

cheers, alex

EIR is a good bet too, works very easily.

To start, I pulled the rest of the frets since most of them weren't fully seated anyway. That resulted in chips galore along the edges of the slots. So, I glued back in the ones I could find, then mixed sawdust and super glue for the rest. Then I tried to cut chamfers on the slots. My three corner file didn't work too well, mostly it just polished the edges without cutting. So I went with various rifle files, some worked better than others, seemed to depend on the grain. These did a fair job of cutting chamfers, but also tore out more material so I had more divots to fill. Once they were all done and the board was sanded back straight, I recut the slots.

Unfortunately, the stop guide on my saw left a mark where it rubbed on the wood. So, with the slots recut, I had to resand the board to take the marks off. Some were deep enough that by the time I got then out, I had lost some chamfer on the slots, so I recut those, tore out more material, filled with dust and glue, recut slots which added more marks, repeat three or four more times.

At one point I was getting very close, when my SM Japanese saw jumped out of the slot and scratched the board. The scratches were deep enough that I had to go all the way back to 60 grit to sand the whole board down again, worked up through 220, and guess what? I sanded most of my chamfers off again.

Plus, I saw more divots. Now maybe there were more than I realized at first, or maybe the sanpaper tore some material out. But for now, I see maybe 5-6 more divots to fix, which will mean recutting the slots to clear out the excess glue, resanding to remove the marks from the saw depth stop, and who knows, will it work this time?

Like I said, chasing my tail on this one. What started out as a gorgeous fret board now has a dozen patched divots on it. Most are not that noticeable, but I'll see them every time I look.

I figure this is probably my technique, but this problem of wood chipping and frets you have to drive in like hammering nails is something I've never seen covered in any of the books. And to be honest, when I thought of doing this build to begin with, the last thing I thought would grind me to a complete halt is getting frets installed.

Maybe I am making progress, but the learning curve has become asymptotic.

_________________
Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

Spyder, seeing how this is No. 1,
I suspect it may have more to do with technique.
I suggest you go to Lowes and get an arm load of 1/4"x 6"x 2' red oak and start building some practice fretboards it's cheap enough.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

East Indian is cheap too..compared to ebony and ziricote.

For what it's worth, I'll cast my vote for EIR; due to price + I've had no problems working with it.

Don't give up just yet. I don't really think the wood has a lot to do with your situation. My guess is frustration is the problem. Sometimes when I get in a stir fry over some little thing I just walk away. Come back clean up my mess and contemplate why I am having a specific problem. Give it a day or so and come back with a fresh set of eyes and a new mindset. Frustration will get the better of you every time...

I just had a little stir fry of my own in building my first. I was closing up the box and had the back on and glued, I started on the top and marked all the braces on the sides and proceeded to cut the slots. For about 3 hours I couldn't get it to fit, one side would go in and the other wouldn't. Cut, fit, measure, cut fit measure I worked myself up into a frenzy and started to get mad at myself because what should have been a simple thing turned into a bad dream. I took my own advice and cleaned everything up, walked away and watched a movie with my wife. I came back in and started again and in about 5 minutes the top was in place and perfectly aligned.

So sometimes it is better to move on to a different project or just go watch a funny movie. Things will look different when you give them some time to sit.

I am sure you will get it done and it will look beautiful.

Cheers,
Bob

Yeah, I'm pretty sure it is technique, and I have already gotten some good tips that helped on this forum. But I have built many fretboards for dulcimers, and never had these issues. If I had made this board out of maple, I would have been done last week.

I am starting to think the problem is I have never made a board out of wood this brittle. Apparently it requires more finesse than I anticipated. I'm not quite to the carving-an-eggshell level of care yet, but I'm getting close. Is that the key?

And just for grins, how long does it normally take to prep a fretboard? Just curious, but is the job of chamfering the slots normally something you settle in for, with some soft music and plenty of coffee?

PS: I'm allergic to red oak sawdust!

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

I wouldn't say there is a "best" wood for fretboards. Like everything else in guitars there are pros and cons to all the choices. As far as most common I would guess EIR would be the most commonly found fretboard followed by ebony and maple (mostly on electrics).

one factor which makes ebony quite appealing is that you can fill chips with ebony dust and (CA or epoxy - you choose). Any wood with a pattern to it is going to show when you need to repair it.

I like the suggestion about trying out some fret seating on red oak. Definitely a technique issue. It took me about 6 different fret board before I started to produce something that I was halfway satisfied with.

Yo Spider...

East Indian.

Now regarding the


"Sometimes a memory falls out and roles down our cheek."

But most times the memories and emotions are buried too deep and so manifest in our craftsmanship.

Or as DaVincie said "anything manifested by the being is an indication of the inner being"

Sometimes a good teacher helps...
Just as sometimes a more suitable wood like that EI helps
And sometimes learning how to clear the mind from wandering around like a dog looking to siss on something can help.
Coffee doesn't help.

Oh ya, go here and read dis....http://www.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10134&t=38850

that might help too.


Blessings
?adma

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.

Audiences and dispensations on Thursdays ~ by appointment only.


.

Is red oak bad to split? Are there any others to practice on? Like I said, I am allergic to red oak, and don't touch the stuff with sandpaper any more.

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

i'd practice on wood that you're actually going to use. when i started out i used the off cut from the actual fret board i was going to make. it only takes about 5 frets of so to figure it out. using the same piece take it in steps:

-prep, size, thickness, etc..
-slot and dress
-press or tap the frets in. -your choice.
-level, crown, dress the ends, etc..

make a mini fretboard out of the leftover piece. sometimes lmi blows out f'd up pieces of rosewood for cheap as well.

Maple is pretty inexpensive wood to practice on. I'm allergic to red oak as well. I use dust collection when jointing/planing/sanding, and wear gloves to handle it to keep my hands from breaking out.

Alex

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"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker

I cut a couple of persimmon (ebony family) trees that were too close to the house. Makes a great practice fretboard. Actually makes a pretty nice fretboard it just gets dirty looking.

Spyder,

If I may make a suggestion that will end your frustration with this board so you can move on to something else?

Cut the slots large enough that you can push the frets in by hand and then glue them in. I personally do not glue frets in and prefer to have the frets do the work but there are guys that swear gluing frets in is the only way.

You could then move on to a different task and save the practice for a later time.

Cheers,
Bob

I love Ebony, I like EIR, but I use Mesquite because I can easily get it and I can afford it.
For a Maple look, I use Pecan (because it is free).
It does seem strange to save a few dollars on materials for a project I'll spend 50+ hours working on.
I just bought 20 bf of Khaya because it was cheap ($5.26 bf). So far, I hate the stuff.
I believe Ebony would be the most durable in the long run. Just my amateur opinion.
Dan

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wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah

Bob,

Gluing the frets in is what I have in mind at this point. But not having a saw with a proper kerf, I will file some off of the barbs until I get the right fit. At least that is the plan.

What I am dealing with now is trying to get the board to look good once that is done. I could cut my losses and fret it now, but it will have chip outs along some of the frets.

As for practice, maybe it will be time to re-think No. 2, which was also going to be zircote. Have plenty of time for that one, since I put it on hold to concentrate on getting No. 1 finished.

So, here are a couple of things I may try.

1) Put a piece of masking tape on the fret saw depth stop so it won't scratch the board.

2) Put a bead of super glue along the upper corners to be chamfered, hoping they won't be so bad to split. But if I do that, will the glue that works into the fret slot make it more difficult for the glue to stick that I glue the frets in with?

3) Go ahead and glue in the frets, then fix the remaining chipouts once the frets are in. Not sure how well I'd be able to sand them down and make the surface look good, but that might be a good option.

Any opinions?
Thanks,

_________________
Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

You may be trying to chamfer the edges of the slot more than you really need. I use a very small and very fine triangle file when doing a refret job. Just a couple of swipes in each slot to just smooth the edges enough so it doesn't chip.

About cutting the slots bigger... I would leave them and file the barbs off of the frets, you want them just small enough that you can push them in with your thumb or a small scrap of wood. They should fit tight enough that they stay down. You will also have to be more accurate in bending the frets to come close to the radius of your fretboard (so they don't pop up in the middle when you push them in). I personally use Titebond for gluing frets in, mainly because it will come loose with heat and it has a decent open time to work with. I don't use CA anymore for a number of reasons but the instant stick thing doesn't work well for me. I like time to work and don't mind waiting for glue to dry.

Cheers,
Bob

I would get a new fretboard. That things been hacked on, chipped out, filled in, sanded, sanded, sanded, hacked on, chippe......You get the idea.
I'd replace it. MHO. EIR, Padauk, and Granadillo are some that I have used and would recommend.
EIR is a standard, and for a reason. Granadillo can be nice and smooth and even in color, or streaky and varied in the look and color of the grain. Paduak starts out sort of orange, but mellows with age and looks great in my opinion. And it works like a dream.

Padauk



Granadillo (one flavor)

_________________
Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

"best" is technically what resists wear the best, and that would be the finest grained and hardest woods, a la ebony...

Some pieces of ziricote will crack if you look at them wrong. Ebony is not quite as bad but is known to crack (over the body usually) even after being installed. Rosewood is easier to fret and more stabile , but not as hard wearing as ebony.
Another wood which makes a nice fretboard, but isn't too hard to work is Pau Ferro (a.k.a. Bolivian rosewood , morado, caviuna, brazilian ironwood, leopard tree, palo santos, etc.) Some people are allergic to its dust, so it isn't as widely used as it could be. Some pieces have very nice grain and color (which can vary a lot) and it gives a smooth polished surface with relatively small pores.

Mike, that granadillo is gorgeous! And i really like the padauk too. I tried a test piece of bloodwood today from a scrap I had laying around, the fret went in much better than it did in the zircote.

Clay, I think I may have one of those pieces, unfortunately. Today I filled all my divots, and started working on frets. I found out I had to grind just about all of the barbs off to get a good fit. Even with the barbs mostly gone, trying a test fit is still tearing chips out along the edges of the slots, so I hvae more to fix tomorrow.

So after grinding off the barbs, with some glue I think they will hold fine. And I can finally put this part of the build behind me. Of course, my board has lots of little black dots on it, but I showed it to someone today for a second opinion, and the notion was that the wood is so highly figured that most people won't recognize it as being fixed. So, I might as well fret it at this point, what have I got to lose?

If I remove this board to go with something other than zircote, I will also have to remove the veneer from the headstock to go with the change. Don't want to go there unless I have to.

So I have another question: how important is it that fret board wood be quarter sawn? I have plenty of bloodwood in the shop, but my board is flat sawn. Does that cause a problem for fret boards?

Thanks again for all the help,

_________________
Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

the fret board, being thin as it is, is not really a structural component of the neck, so the grain orientation shouldn't matter much. as we have recently seen on the forum, fingerboards can split in the fretting process; flatsawn wood should be much less likely to do so.