Official Luthiers Forum!

How many of you would actually like to make a living as a full time luthier?

It interests me - the standard of amateur making is so high these days, many of you seem so very dedicated. Yet with so many makers the market seems pretty much awash and breaking into the market is no simple matter. What are your thoughts?

Also - making seems much more popular on the forum than repairing, yet repairers can make a decent living if skilled and willing to put in the effort, and there is a shortage (in the UK at least) of good repairers. What' the situation elsewhere?

Would you rather make as a hobby than repair for a living...?

Is it nice just to treat lutherie as a fascinating pastime, which you might feel less happy about if your livelihood depended on it.

Let me know your thoughts folks.


nigel

http://nkforsterguitars.blogspot.com/

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nigel

http://www.theluthierblog.com

Looks like you have a double thread Nigel!

I like how it is now. I have a regular job that pays the bills and I can build at my leisure. I take orders when they come in, but I don't actively pursue them. I am building two right now, I just picked up a flamenco commission, and I am hoping to fit in a build for myself in the next two years. I look at is as a hobby that pays me as opposed to normal hobbies where you just spend and spend and spend. I mean no disrespect to anyone who does this professionally, but I treat it as a hobby. If it became a job, I might not enjoy it as much. Plus, I would have to more than double my base price and hit Jim Olson production numbers or better in order to not take a hit in my pocket. I could get health benefits through my wife's job, so that would help, but I live in New York City and it is a bit expensive to live here. Nah, I don't want to do it professionally until I retire. I might have a following by then too! And for more than just goat pics and llama humor!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

As for lifestyle, I would love it! I have 3 daughters (oldest a senior in high school this year) so I have 3 to put through college and 3 weddings in my future so financially I have to stay as I am now. Wish I could spend more time building but I'm going to participate in my girls activities.......so unfortunately that means the lutheir work progresses much slower than I prefer. I won't change my priorities so no change in the near future for me.

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

Making a living at this is a good way to ruin a great hobby.....

I agree with grumpy. Turning your passion into a business can suck the joy out of it...

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Steve Sollod (pronounced sorta like "Solid")
www.swiftcreekguitars.com

I'm pretty much with Tony, I like being able to earn enough money to support my hobby and also appreciate the fact that I don't have to worry much about deadlines, production levels, health insurance, suppliers, and so on. I plan to keep working hard to improve both my repair and building skills and hope to have a decent level of business when I retire. Looking to have luthiery pay for itself and provide a bit of side money.

My passion is building things and I am very fortunate that I do that all day every day as an R&D engineer. Adding in the deadlines, supplier problems, and other issues is what makes it work.

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Steve Smith
"Music is what feelings sound like"

Well..... I did that for a living from the late 70's to the early 90's - 70 hours a week in a busy urban music store.
It was fun, and it was a PITA.
I'll never do it again, but I'm glad that I did.

I've been repairing and building nearly all my adult life, but now that I'm retired I'm doing more of it.

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"Act your age, not your shoe size" - Prince

Aside what Grumpy said that is quite true, if you want to make a living out of building/repairing guitars, you can't just make and repair guitars the best you can. You also have to be a good businessman. And that is a completely different ball game. Some have it, some don't. If you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably don't have it in you.

Regarding the reason why repairs might seem less popular than building, well I don't know about others, but for once, it's far easier to be a good builder than a good repairman. When you build from scratch, you control pretty much everything the way you want. When trying to repair a side crack at the bottom of a guitar, or fixing a cracked brace through a soundhole, it's a little more complicated. Or at least, the skills and knowledge required are a little different. Also, when building, the worst that can happen is to give back a deposit to the customer if something is wrong with the build. This way he looses nothing. When screwing up with a several $$$ vintage Martin or Gibson, it's a little more diffcult to get your customer in the same situation than before he decided to do business with you.

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Alain Moisan
Former full time builder of Acoustics, Classicals and Flamencos.
(Now building just for fun!)

I am happy to keep building and repairing guitars as a second career, getting a pension check from my 1st career make the sense of urgency in making money much less.

Mario buddy other than the excessive snow, I could get into your life style. Out of town on a lake is a great way to live though like you said earning a living from instruments takes some of the fun away. Seeing you fuss over Rolly's guitars last November I could sense the love you have for what you do.

Fred

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Fred Tellier
http://www.fetellierguitars.com
Facebook page http://www.facebook.com/pages/FE-Tellier-Guitars/163451547003866

I would love to be able to slot in somewhere near what Tony describes. I have still have to get better before I can start selling instruments. If I get to that point, it would be nice to be able to make enough money to offset some of the cost of perusing my hobby. . . All hobbies cost money, it is nice to have one that actually produces something.

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

I guess I'll post my response in this thread, too.

When I'm feeling cynical, I feel like every other twenty-something girl I know on Facebook is advertising their cupcake business, and everyone who's finished a guitar is a sponsor on the Acoustic Guitar Forum.

I really enjoy building guitars, but I am not interested in doing it for a living. I'm building a guitar for a client right now, and I've realized that while it's not unenjoyable per se, I really prefer the freedom to experiment, to go at my own pace, etc.

I'd like to continue building for friends and family in the future, but really, this is an escape for me. I can go down to the "shop" (by that, I mean garage), emerse myself in the soul-nourishing power of the process, and come back upstairs feeling refreshed.

To me it sounds like you are already a pro but also have a full time job.

Although (for me) it would be wonderful to be a full time luthier, a simple comparison of hours/ guitar vs. price paid/guitar keeps me well in check. I am not particularly money driven but I do like to make a decent living. Not doing so would be a fast road to a bad attitude about what I was doing. With the amount of pleasure I get from amateur building I am not willing to risk the fallout from the effects of a bad attitude. Most everyone likes to be paid for what they do. This is not to say that successful luthiers don't make a living but I will bet that if you were to interview a few of them they would have stories (and perhaps attitudes).

I watched Kent Everett speak on this subject. He told this joke: "When asked what he would do with the money if he won a million dollars in the lottery a luthier replied, "I guess I would just keep building guitars until the money was all gone."

And...

As the saying goes, "behind every successful luthier is a wife with a good job."

No way! I am far from a pro. Calling me a pro insults pros everywhere, Kent!

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

Well, if you are getting paid........<smile>

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Formerly known as Adaboy.......

But I make an effort to be immature while i am building. It is a very unprofessional approach.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I'd like to be in the same boat as you as far as making some money, that's the direction that I'm heading (for now). For now the Army pays my bills, which is noce. Once I retire with a pesnion and health benefits I hope to build full time. I was going to move back to NY, but the stupid polititians are stabbing what's left of the second amendment with machetes, butterknives, forks, or whatever they can get their hands on. I don't think they'll be happy until the only ones with guns are the police and the criminals. For that reason (and many, many others) I'm considering staying here in Alaska.

Somehow, I don't' think it takes much effort. . .

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Bryan Bear PMoMC

Take care of your feet, and your feet will take care of you.

Effort is needed to build AND be extremely immature. My normal level of immaturity just happens on its own.

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http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC

I have recently taken on a couple of "repair jobs" that are in fact near complete restorations. Though both are very old, neither is high dollar. Gotta work up to that.
I am really enjoying the challenge of doing my best to restore these instruments to as close as possible to their original condition.
I think I would love to do this for a living, with a bit of building on the side. For the time being, I'll just keep doing what I can and see where it leads me.

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Mike

The only thing nescessary for evil to thrive is for good men to do nothing.

I would love to make my living as a luthier, then reality checks in, firstly i'm only on my first build and two only one person in my household can do a job they love but unfortunately pays peanuts and i've all ready been beaten to that post by my partner. But hay I have a lottery ticket for tomorrow night so who knows

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Nick

Follow my musings on getting started in luthiery http://www.tredwellinstruments.co.uk

I hear that!

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Having studied with Bill Cumpiano way back in the late 70's and early 80's, one of the first things that Bill had said to me was that "guitars as a living, there are two ways to look at it, the first being that if you have to build (have the desire, drive, etc...), and only build, then you play starving artist. You build the first piece and take money from that sale and put it into the next build and live off the rest of the money until the next piece sells and then do it over again. The second was to go into repairs. Repairs will give a more steady income but you won't have the new car, new house, etc.... but will be able to survive a little easier. If you can accept that, then follow your desires and have a go at it."

Having been doing repairs for 35 years full time (professionally / 50 years total) with the occasional build here and there (time permitting), I can tell you that you don't have a retirement plan to count on, the bills are being paid (sometimes a little late) and yes, my wife has the good job and if it weren't for her, I probably wouldn't have lasted this long in the business. My retirement is to slow the repair side down (can never get be done with it all together, too many good customers that I still enjoy doing work for) and let the building side be the bulk of the work that I do during the year (at least, that's the plan for now). I realize that I will be working till they find me slumped over on a bench some day, but I love the work and would not trade it for any other job in the world.

At least with doing repairs, it gives you a chance to study all these great guitars that have been built in the past, and see what worked and what didn't work for them at the time. You can apply this to what you build and produce a good product for customers.