Official Luthiers Forum!

I know the Delta 14" cast iron is the most popular out there due to all the DIY'ers using them, that and welded steel design that are used in saws larger than 14", but I have seen so many designs looking online in Taiwan that I have questions about how they work and pros/cons of them...

For example the 18" I just got has NO tension springs, just a threaded rod bearing against a square nut to raise the wheel and apply tension to the blade, nothing to cushion shocks or dampen whatever a spring would usually do, so the question is, does that design work or is it a "you get what you pay for" kind of thing (in any case I'd like to get a quick tension release made for it, I have an idea how it would work but not sure on the execution)?

Then I saw other larger bandsaws, such as 26" bandsaws looking like this (offered by the same person who sold me the 18" bandsaw):

http://tw.page.bid.yahoo.com/tw/auction ... 2320854915

It looks almost like the Delta 14" except it is much larger, has an arm hanging out that you attach some kind of a weight to it, not sure what for. I don't think it's cast iron but it could be, looks like bent I beams for a frame. I am not sure if there's a tension spring in there but it seems like the weight hanging on the arm may serve the purpose... who knows, never seen it in person since the seller is hundreds of miles away.

I have googled high and low and could not find information on bandsaw designs other than the Delta cast iron/clones. How are larger bandsaws tensioned? Perhaps the bandsaw lack a spring because the weight of the larger saw absorbs vibration better? Mines didn't really vibrate all that much once I tuned it out (ie. replaced faulty blades, tensioned them properly)... the minor vibration mostly came from the motor and drive belt (which will be addressed later).

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Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

- my personal main bandsaw has no spring, German made Bäuerle BS 70
- my second bandsaw has a spring, Italian Meber SR 600
- at may dayjob we have a quite big German one without spring...
- than we have a bigger one...without spring
- and few weeks ago we bought a new one for about 1,5 Mio euros...l will search for the spring... Möhringer.
- I have a another small bandsaw, like 10", with spring.

I think it is not so important if you have a spring or not...., with a bandsaw actually nothing is really important, only the blade...everything else is overrated....People spent hundreds of dollars for guides and quick release, but they use cheep blades....that doesnt make sense to me. My blades cost twice as much as the saw...

- A quick release is...sorry ...useless like nothing else....takes me 5 seconds to turn the wheel and take the tension off.
-yes, the weight is tensiong the blade in your linked bandsaw, thats is an old design, but a good one...

I find that frame construction and table/support design are much more critical things on a bandsaw. If the frame is not rigid enough or the table prone to vibration and oscillation you will struggle to make quality cuts even with the best of blades.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

The problem with turning the wheel to release the tension at the end of the day... it's real easy to forget and turn the saw on with low tension... then there is a problem. Also how do you remember where the tension was?

But then in the past I never took tension off and never had a problem, if the saw won't be used for months and months I will definitely take the tension off.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

I think the blade makes the biggest difference. Just select accordingly. If you have a serious Bandsaw then your options are so much greater. My small Bandsaw is junk but coupled with a thin gauge blade transforms it to a very useful piece of equipment. I even replaced the bearing guides (poor quality) with simple hardwood dowels, that was an extremely cheap upgrade!

Yea that was the major reason why I went for a large bandsaw... blade choices for small bandsaws are extremely limited but the problem with thin gauge blade is that they have very short blade life. I've managed to wear out a blade in 2 weeks on the small 3 wheel bandsaw, and the replacement blade was just as crap (no better than what came with the saw). I bought a coil of bandsaw blade last year hoping to fix the expensive blade problem, only to find out that the 3 wheel bandsaw couldn't handle the blade without breaking them. Tried the same on the larger 2 wheel 10" bandsaw, same result, blade would break within minutes (again, last year). Today I just welded up 133" of that same blade, and the result looks promising even if guide adjustment took forever due to crappy lower guide design... I think I want to cut some slots into that nut holding the lower guide so I can adjust it without removing the trunion. Do they make spoked nuts like those guitar truss rod nuts?

The redeeming quality with the lower guide design is that it's only 1/4" from the table, giving very good support of the blade at that point... the frame didn't have an angled cutout either so the guide had to be small... I'd like to give ceramic guide a try if someone sells custom ones.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

In my job at the university we use the bandsaw alot. I agree with all thats been said already. The blade is the important thing. other than that I'd make sure the throat was at least 9 inches so I could resaw timber for back and sides. If I had to buy one for home use I'd buy a second-hand one. Old makes used better metal and are more sturdy. My personal preference is Wadkin. Their machines are built to last forever.
At the Uni we cut alot of MDF, that makes the blades go blunt very fast.

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We are all in the gutter but some of us are looking at guitars.

By the way, here is a picture of the lower guide...

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Easy, when you release the tension ensure that you've dropped the upper blade guard/guide down to the table. When you go to use the saw you will have a reminder to set it while you raise the guides.

Doesn't your saw have a tension guide? Even if it does, you should start using other references such as listening to its pitch as you pluck it like a guitar string. As the tension increases so will the pitch. Also, just push the blade sideways and feel its resistance. You want to involve all of your senses in how you work.

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Expectation is the source of all misery; comparison the thief of joy.
http://redrivercanoe.ca/

Agree with Doug. I actually ignore the tension guide on the saw and set the tension by feel while deflecting the blade with a finger and plucking till it "feels right". Works for me.

It's hard to tell from your picture of the lower guide block if you have the teeth of the blade going though the blocks--if so, that usually doesn't work very well. A very simple and inexpensive upgrade is to replace the metal guide blocks with Cool Blocks, a graphite impregnated laminate. They are worth the few dollars they cost.

If I had an expensive blade in the saw, I would make sure to de-tension it when I wasn't working with it. Depending on what you cut, the carbide tips on a blade can outlast the blade. There's no sense hastening the decline of the blade by metal fatigue.

No it's not going through the blocks. I would like to go with ceramics but the problem is, almost all aftermarket accessories out there are meant for the Delta 14" saws or smaller, they have nothing for 18" saws and I can't seem to find custom cool block sets meaning I have to purchase multiple sets to get the ones I need. I plan on making wooden guides out of scrap rosewoods, some have said they work real well and won't dull blades.

The blade currently on the saw is el-chepo carbon steel blade, I never detension just because without quick release it's so much of a pain. For resaw blades I take them off the saw as soon as I am done with them so that is never an issue, I always left 1/4 6T blades on the saw for general cuts as it cuts most stocks fairly well as long as I do not resaw with it. It also curves fairly well too. I actually welded this one myself with silver solder.

The lower guide is 2 square blocks, one of them angled (to allow table tilt), the top guide is big (1/2") round blocks, very unusual and nobody offers a coolblock for it.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

Sounds like you have it all figured out. I don't envy your having to remove the blade after each resaw session.

It helps that I don't resaw all that much, I use the 1/4 6T blade far more than any other blades.

_________________
Cat-gut strings are made from kitten guts, stretched out to near breaking point and then hardened with grue saliva. As a result these give a feeling of Pain and anguish whenever played, and often end up playing themselves backwards as part of satanic rituals.

Typhoon Guitars
http://www.typhoon-guitars.com

You may as well try the wooden guide blocks. Hardly take much time to make and they are seriously cheap. Some folk steep them overnight in a thin oil. It's the end grain that they place against the blade. They worked very well for my Bandsaw, such that I don't feel the need to try any other type of guide.