Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Wed Aug 06, 2025 10:04 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:44 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:51 pm
Posts: 1204
First name: Chris
Last Name: Ensor
City: Springfield
State: Missouri
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
A while ago I was thinking about experimenting on a build. I was sitting on a plane, thinking about my favorite old TLR camera. I had been wanting to figure out a way to do an adjustable sound hole on a guitar- hoping to allow the player to focus the sound in one direction or another. I decided to try to adapt the leaf style aperture from my TLR to this project and make an aperture for the guitar.

The "sound hole aperture" took over a year to fully design and make functional. I made it out of spruce and other light materials to keep the weight down.

The device had to be installed before the box was closed, which made the finish process "interesting" around the sound hole.

Overall, the sound hole aperture does effect the tone slightly, but it is more noticeable to the player than to the audience in front of the instrument. The additional weight on the top dampens the sound enough (even with a lightly braced top and a light weight bridge) that the guitar sounds a bit thin. So this one falls more in the form than the function category.

Not all experiments turn out the way we want or expected, but that doesn't mean I didn't learn anything! It was fun and gets me excited for my next experimental guitar.

Attachment:
control freak.jpg


For a full write up and more pics check out my website:
http://www.ensorguitars.com/zebra_sitka_gallery.html

Also on my website is a video:
http://www.ensorguitars.com/zebra_sitka_video.html

Thanks for looking.


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

_________________
ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:06 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 5:28 pm
Posts: 687
First name: Casey
Last Name: Cochran
City: Gainesville
State: GA
Zip/Postal Code: 30501
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Now that's thinking outside, err uh, inside the box. Cool idea!

_________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from poor judgement.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:12 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6994
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Just a thought, maybe you could mount the aperture mechanism to the back?

Mike


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 10:47 am 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6262
Location: Virginia
Well it is quite a beautiful sculpture regardless of tone. You could always remove the experimental work if you don't like it. Ramirez built a guitar he called De Cámara which had an 'apature' built along the rims about in their mid point. Almost like an interior top with a huge sound cut out. A baffle of sorts. Anyway kudos to any luthier who experiments. When I did experiments years ago I never took the time to make them look good.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 1:51 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:42 am
Posts: 1135
Location: Hudson, MA
First name: Kevin
Last Name: Quine
City: Hudson
State: MA
Country: Usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Oh great....now I also have to worry about f-stops when I play gaah
Must be a very cool mechanism in there. I'd love to see more of it


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:24 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2010 6:22 pm
Posts: 1295
First name: Miguel
Last Name: Bernardo
Country: portugal
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
it looks wonderful! congrats!

_________________
member of the guild of professional dilettantes


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 2:42 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:52 am
Posts: 1388
First name: Zeke
Last Name: McKee
City: Goodlettsville
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37070
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Just a thought, maybe you could mount the aperture mechanism to the back?

Mike


Or a mini one for a sound port! It would have no dampening to the top and would be cool!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:02 pm 
Offline
Walnut
Walnut
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:50 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Way cool!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 4:14 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:06 pm
Posts: 2739
Location: Magnolia DE
First name: Brian
Last Name: Howard
City: Magnolia
State: Delaware
Zip/Postal Code: 19962
Country: United States
Focus: Repair
Status: Professional
Impressive!

_________________
Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 5:33 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:51 pm
Posts: 1204
First name: Chris
Last Name: Ensor
City: Springfield
State: Missouri
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
ZekeM,
Actually it does have a sliding door on the soundport, which makes a very clear difference in the bass response for the player.

_________________
ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 6:06 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:32 pm
Posts: 3470
First name: Alex
Last Name: Kleon
City: Whitby
State: Ontario
Zip/Postal Code: L1N8X2
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Looks like it'll eat guitar picks! pizza Kidding aside, I really like what you've done, Chris. This is a beautiful guitar!

Alex

_________________
"Indecision is the key to flexibility" .... Bumper sticker


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:20 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2010 9:01 pm
Posts: 3031
First name: Tony
Last Name: C
City: Brooklyn
State: NY
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Very cool Chris!
Since the aperture is not traditional, another way to make it dampen the top less would be to move the sound hole to the upper bass bout. Have you thought of that? Then there is the option of suspending it from the rim so you keep the traditional sound hole location. The possibilities are...not quite endless, but there is certainly more than one other option now! It looks cool as h-e-double-hockey-sticks though! I like the guitar too. Very nice looking in all respects!

_________________
http://www.CostaGuitars.com
PMoMC


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:38 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 12:46 am
Posts: 1247
First name: Beth
Last Name: Mayer
City: Tucson
State: AZ
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
The aperture is extremely cool, but. There are so many incredible features on this instrument. I particularly love the painless bridge with straight saddle and offset string holes. The cutaway and bevels are beautiful too. Amazing,


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: The control freak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 12:06 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:52 am
Posts: 1388
First name: Zeke
Last Name: McKee
City: Goodlettsville
State: TN
Zip/Postal Code: 37070
Country: United States
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Chris Ensor wrote:
ZekeM,
Actually it does have a sliding door on the soundport, which makes a very clear difference in the bass response for the player.

cool! You jus thought of everything then!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:36 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 18, 2012 8:35 pm
Posts: 2660
First name: D
Last Name: S
State: TX
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Very cool!
Awesome craftmanship.
I'd like to see China try to copy this!

_________________
wah
Wah-wah-wah-wah
Wah


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 8:54 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 6:24 pm
Posts: 314
First name: EddieLee
Last Name: Brown
Love that bliss [clap]

_________________
_____________

EddieLee


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:29 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:10 am
Posts: 522
First name: Martin
Last Name: Kelly
City: Tampa
State: FL
Zip/Postal Code: 33634
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
What does this guitar not have? Sculpture was the right word. I think James Bond would be proud to own this guitar. [clap] [clap]


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:27 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6994
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
I should have added that your craftsmanship is amazing. Beautiful guitar. And one with an F stop none the less!!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 10:31 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2004 1:33 pm
Posts: 270
Location: United States
First name: Dennis
Last Name: Ecklund
City: Athens
State: AL
Zip/Postal Code: 35611
Country: USA
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Chris, that's a beautiful rendition of an interesting idea. An alternate approach might be to switch to Waterhouse stops.

If you used thin carbon fiber disks and cam-locked them in place using lightweight studs in the top, you could greatly reduce the weight issue.

Of course, that's not nearly as cool as a continuously variable soundhole!

_________________
D..


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 1:28 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:27 pm
Posts: 313
Location: McKinney, TX
First name: David
Last Name: Morris
City: McKinney
State: TX
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
Sounds pretty darn good to me. Is there any chance of a follow up video demonstrating the differences in sound when you open and close the aperture?

_________________
David Morris


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Sat Feb 09, 2013 3:28 pm 
Offline
Cocobolo
Cocobolo

Joined: Sun May 20, 2007 2:47 pm
Posts: 377
Location: Canada
Chris, that's an impressive idea and some brilliant execution.

I don't know how much weight you needed to mount on to the sound board to make the aperture work, but I'm guessing that the size of the arm bevel, the size of your bridge, and the size of the sound port all contribute to keep the box from sounding to its potential. You've basically shrunk the size of the sound board, stiffened it up, and maybe given the box too much air. I think that each of these factors would lean a guitar's sound away from round and warm.

Because I see genius at work in your aperture idea I'd be curious to know how another guitar would sound with it if that other guitar had no arm bevel and a traditional size bridge.

Sorry for sounding to critique-y. There really is some genius in your idea.

Phil


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:02 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 05, 2009 3:51 pm
Posts: 1204
First name: Chris
Last Name: Ensor
City: Springfield
State: Missouri
Focus: Build
Status: Professional
Thanks for all the replies.

Phil,
I very much appreciate your analysis of my guitar. The intention of the aperture was to allow the player to shape the tonal signature of the guitar (more mids, trebels, or basses) for whatever particular song or sound they want at the moment. Knowing that the aperture would add significant weight (I think it was 120g), I went for a more active, lightly braced top. I left the lower bout braces (all of them) uncoupled. I also went with a light weight bridge- 27g. (On a side note, the wenge bridge was so porous that when I was gluing it on, some glued came up through the top of the bridge on the wings!) The armrest does significantly reduce the active area of the top on the bass side, but from my experience, this doesn't normally "dampen" the sound of the top as much as reduce the "boomyness" of the guitar. Since the top of this guitar is now closer to the width at the LB of my parlor, I could understand if it sounded similar to my parlor, but that is not the case. Also, having a cantilevered neck normally adds a bit more volume and sustain to the body. That is the case in this guitar. I know it sounds odd, but the guitar sounds a bit choked and loud at the same time.

Back to the main point, the aperture: the device helps to focus the sound in the mids slightly, but it is really only noticeable to the player. The dampening effect that it has on the top is the largest problem (also the fact that it would be extremely expensive due to how many hours it takes to pull off). I think Tony had the best idea- moving it to the UB. But unless I have someone specifically inquire about it on a guitar, I won't be adding it to my list of options anytime soon.

All these observations are based on the guitar being strung up for less than a week. I will be interested to see how it matures with more time under tension.

_________________
ELEVATE || Next Level Lutherie
http://elevatelutherie.com
&
http://ensorguitars.com


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:50 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:46 pm
Posts: 950
First name: Francis
Last Name: Richer
City: Montréal
State: Québec
Zip/Postal Code: H4G 2Z2
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Really nice work, and ingenius idea! [clap]


Mike O'Melia wrote:
I should have added that your craftsmanship is amazing. Beautiful guitar. And one with an F stop none the less!!


What exactly do you mean by F stop?

_________________
Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:03 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood
User avatar

Joined: Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:12 pm
Posts: 6994
First name: Mike
Last Name: O'Melia
City: Huntsville
State: Alabama
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Ti-Roux wrote:
Really nice work, and ingenius idea! [clap]


Mike O'Melia wrote:
I should have added that your craftsmanship is amazing. Beautiful guitar. And one with an F stop none the less!!


What exactly do you mean by F stop?


Cameras use something called F stop, aperture setting. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number#section_2

Though its not entirely an accurate use if the term, since focal length means nothing in guitars. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: The control freak!
PostPosted: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:10 pm 
Offline
Koa
Koa
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:46 pm
Posts: 950
First name: Francis
Last Name: Richer
City: Montréal
State: Québec
Zip/Postal Code: H4G 2Z2
Country: Canada
Focus: Build
Status: Semi-pro
Mike O'Melia wrote:
Ti-Roux wrote:
Really nice work, and ingenius idea! [clap]


Mike O'Melia wrote:
I should have added that your craftsmanship is amazing. Beautiful guitar. And one with an F stop none the less!!


What exactly do you mean by F stop?


Cameras use something called F stop, aperture setting. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-number#section_2

Though its not entirely an accurate use if the term, since focal length means nothing in guitars. :)


laughing6-hehe
I was looking around on the guitar : ''What the heck is a F stop...?!"

Makes sens now.

_________________
Francis Richer, Montréal
Les Guitares F&M Guitars


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 40 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com