Official Luthiers Forum!

Owned and operated by Lance Kragenbrink
It is currently Mon Jul 28, 2025 4:17 pm


All times are UTC - 5 hours


Forum rules


Be nice, no cussin and enjoy!




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 10:20 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:43 am
Posts: 1326
Location: chicagoland, illinois
City: chicagoland
State: illinois
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
i have been browsing photos on romantic era guitars lately.....i noticed this one with what looks like nasty splitting of the top, behind the bridge. then i got to wondering, hm i'm actually surprised not to see a lot more of this, considering how weak cedars and spruces are. is this why the fan bracing was developed for guitars in the 1800s..? i'm assuming this one was not fan braced

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:36 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2007 11:58 am
Posts: 1667
Those cracks have nothing to do with brace patterns, and everything to do with good, well-calibrated hygrometers.....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:26 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:43 am
Posts: 1326
Location: chicagoland, illinois
City: chicagoland
State: illinois
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
seems hard to imagine a crack pattern like that forming with diagonal(fan) bracing underneath it. have you ever seen a more modern classical/flamenco guitar exhibit that behavior...?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:55 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Sep 10, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 1887
Location: UK
Lot's of fan braced Guitars crack in that manner. That guitar is almost 200 years old, complete with an ebony bridge. Such Guitars were made in large numbers by small workshops. I doubt that they were waiting for the weather to change. Humidity control was virtually non existent.
I've seen many Romantic guitars that don't have those types of cracks but plenty of cracks on Torres Guitars.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:31 am 
Offline
Koa
Koa

Joined: Thu Aug 31, 2006 11:42 pm
Posts: 709
Location: United States
First name: Tom
Last Name: Rein
City: Saline
State: Michigan
Focus: Build
The cracks appear to be related to the bridge holes. Each one lines up with a bridge pin. Ain't no tellin' what it looks like inside. I have seen pics of Panormo guitars that had bridge pin holes drilled right through the fan braces.

_________________
Stay with the happy people.
--Reynolds Large


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:29 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Fri Jan 25, 2008 9:51 pm
Posts: 1134
Location: Albany NY
First name: David
Last Name: LaPlante
Status: Professional
Fan bracing was actually developed in the 1700's in Spain. Francisco Sanguino of Seville is generally credited with it's first use.
The whole point of the fan pattern is that it stiffens the thin spruce laterally (across the grain) while helping it to resist string tension and deformation longitudinally (along the grain).
Attachment:
SanguinoBracing.jpg


You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:34 am 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Thu Jan 06, 2005 12:19 pm
Posts: 1051
Location: United States
While fan bracing didnt become widely used in Guitars until the 19th century, it didnt start then but there are existing examples of Spanish Vihuela De Mano and Italian guitars from the mid 17th century with fan braces. Even some early Persian lutes from the 15th century have been found to have small fan braces behind the bridge area near the tail.

As far as cracking is concerned the relative humidity of Spain (Torres guitars) to Northern Europe (France, Germany and England) has more to do with the number of romantic guitars with no cracks versus Torres guitars with cracks. Another factor to consider is that a modern classical guitar (proportions popularized by Torres) is much wider and larger a surface area than the shorter scale and smaller top size of a typical romantic guitar.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 1:16 pm 
Offline
Contributing Member
Contributing Member

Joined: Mon Jul 11, 2011 12:43 am
Posts: 1326
Location: chicagoland, illinois
City: chicagoland
State: illinois
Country: usa
Focus: Build
Status: Amateur
i did not know fan bracing went back that far. thanks for chiming in everbody. i'd never seen that section of a top crack out like that before. looks brutal


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:11 pm 
Offline
Brazilian Rosewood
Brazilian Rosewood

Joined: Tue May 13, 2008 10:44 am
Posts: 6262
Location: Virginia
I've repaired a few fan braced guitars with cracks like that and worse. Just because the braces are diagonal doesn't mean you won't get cracks like that. The top can crack right across the bracing.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 21 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
phpBB customization services by 2by2host.com