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well, maybe not but .... does anyone else react badly to denatured alcohol fumes? The stuff I can get here in France is 90% ethanol 7% methanol and the 3% ... something else So a few days into finishing I get what I can only assume is a reaction to inhaling the fumes of this evil brew - headaches, nausea, the works (this was after buying solvent filters for my respirator mask). So basically - is there any substitute to denatured alcohol that can be used that will not make me feel like death for days afterwards?

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imagination is more important than knowledge, knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world

I notice that whenever I open a bottle of denatured alcohol I immediately cough. Here in the US we have an alcohol called Everclear, which is a 190 proof alcohol for making mixed drinks and you buy it in a liquor store. It works great for dissolving shellac flakes and for French polishing. It is basically 95% alcohol. Maybe there is something similar there?

What kind of gloves are you wearing? It's possible you're absorbing the bad stuff through your skin.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

I asked the "is grain alcohol available in Europe" question to a guitar maker in Granada that I know, and he didn't actually
know the answer - everyone gives their guitars to professional polishers, pretty much, and never ask what is going on there.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

There are a few different "alcohols" available here. The one I'm using is what I thought closest to denatured in the US but its mean stuff vapour wise. I wear nitrile gloves, or at least one glove for French polishing. I dunno how I'll get this one finished now ... the customer wants French polish lol

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imagination is more important than knowledge, knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world

I use 95 grain alcohol. It's very pricey compared to denaturated (12$ 1/2 liter 20$ 1 liter) but it's worth it.

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Build log

If it's of any use to you, Spiritus, Polish vodka is available in Europe - 95% grain alcohol.
http://vodkaselection.com/alcool-95/spiritus/ for example

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

When in Spain recently, I walked into a pharmacy and pucrchased 99 percent pure alcohol and used it for French polishing.

Well there ya go. That's the stuff to use. Alex - it's expensive here too, more expensive than most regular vodkas or gins that you'd buy for consumption.

I don't think you can keep alcohol at 99 percent pure for longer than it takes to crack open the bottle, can you? It's too hygroscopic.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

190 proof alcohol, Wendy ?

I don't think so, the maximum proof, which would be for 100% alcohol, is 175. It doesn't get any higher. It's kinda like absolute zero, −273.15° Celsius, you can't get any colder ...

?? I was of the understanding that 200 proof is pure.

My Everclear bottle says 190.

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

200 proof = 100% alcohol.

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

Ah-ha! Wikipedia reveals that the UK uses 7/4 times the alcohol volume as the proof measure, so 175 = pure. Another example of two countries separated by a common language.

Does that mean that 80 proof Scotch is stronger than 80 proof Bourbon, or is there relabeling going on?

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

After drinking 4/7 of the bottle, does it matter?

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Phil

http://www.oleninstruments.com

"Those who tilt at windmills are only considered insane by those who can't see the dragon."

That's strange, only the Everclear has ever made me feel like death all over the day after. Oh you are using it as a finish? Never mind.

It's my understanding that proof is equal to twice the alcohol. So 80 proof would be 40% alcohol and so on. I can't get Everclear here in Virginia unfortunately so I just used hardware store denatured alcohol but it doesn't smell any worse then the potable kind.

thanks all ... I may do what Robbie did and call in the Pharmacie here to see if they can give me some other stuff thats somewhat less "pungent". Or I could go home to Ireland and get a bottle of poteen and use that

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imagination is more important than knowledge, knowledge is limited, imagination encircles the world

I would suggest you stop using the product.

Here's some info on methanol which is likely your issue.

Methanol has a high toxicity in humans. If ingested, for example, as little as 10 mL of pure methanol can cause permanent blindness by destruction of the optic nerve, and 30 mL is potentially fatal,[13] although the median lethal dose is typically 100 mL (4 fl oz) (i.e. 1–2 mL/kg of pure methanol[14]). Toxic effects take hours to start, and effective antidotes can often prevent permanent damage.[13] Because of its similarities in both appearance and odor to ethanol (the alcohol in beverages), it is difficult to differentiate between the two (such is also the case with denatured alcohol).

Methanol is toxic by two mechanisms. First, methanol (whether it enters the body by ingestion, inhalation, or absorption through the skin) can be fatal due to its CNS depressant properties in the same manner as ethanol poisoning. Second, in a process of toxication, it is metabolized to formic acid (which is present as the formate ion) via formaldehyde in a process initiated by the enzyme alcohol dehydrogenase in the liver.[15] Methanol is converted to formaldehyde via alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH) and formaldehyde is converted to formic acid (formate) via aldehyde dehydrogenase (ALDH). The conversion to formate via ALDH proceeds completely, with no detectable formaldehyde remaining.[16] Formate is toxic because it inhibits mitochondrial cytochrome c oxidase, causing the symptoms of hypoxia at the cellular level, and also causing metabolic acidosis, among a variety of other metabolic disturbances.[17]

More information here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methanol

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Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

Just use 190 proof grain alcohol. No fillers, and you can sip a bit if u like

I live in Virginia. I called the local Alcoholic Beverage Control Office and applied for a permit to buy grain alcohol. An officer came to my shop and inspected my operation to make sure that I didn't plan to actually drink the stuff. I got the permit and now can buy Everclear at the local ABC store. It's expensive but worth it. A bottle lasts a long time.

Bob, check to see if they have Diesel Grain Neutral Spririts in the ABC store. It'll save you a couple of bucks a 5th and it's the same stuff, essentially. They used to carry it here in NC, before they stopped carrying 190 proof stuff. Now it's all special order, and you have to buy a case.

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Waddy

Photobucket Build Album Library

Sound Clips of most of my guitars

They only sell the 190 proof by permit, so they don't care about price or variety. The biggest user in town that I know about cleans the ice cream machines with it. Sometimes, when I'm in another state I can get a better deal, but all of the states seem to have raised the prices significantly in the past few years. It's like they think people drink the stuff and have to have it.

Most every chemical will cause some people to display an allergic reaction.

In the case of denatured alcohol, or "methylated spirits" as it is known in the UK, I have used it every other day for nigh on 40 years, and have never had any reaction to it ( I don't drink the stuff, but my skin comes in contact with it plenty) Same goes for many other cabinetmakers of my acquaintance. So, I wouldn't get too paranoid about the alleged toxicity ...although naturally you don't ever want to ingest it.

btw, it's the best thing I have ever come across for removing surplus epoxy.

I think my skin is so calloused now it must be like working with gloves on. I use denatured alcohol all the time. I live in an area with many refineries, and I think the tap water may be worse for me. My constant sneezing has little to do with the alcohol I'm sure. If I wear gloves, they are cheap cotton ones, and only to cut down on finger prints and accidental smears.

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"Preoccupation with an effect gives it power and enhances the error"
from "Your Owner's Manual" by Burt Hotchkiss.

In the U.S., denatured alcohol, at least the hardware store brands I’ve had experience with contain as much as 50% methanol and have additional ingredients that give it a horrifically sickening smell. The smell alone is enough for me to not want to open the stuff in the house and I certainly wouldn’t want my face in the vapors for the many combined hours it takes to French-polish a guitar.

As for the dangers from exposure to methanol and any other toxic ingredients, the product MSDS will list these and any precautions that should be followed.

Joe

Fiddes 'Finishing Spirit' might be an option. I depends on how much it costs to ship it to France. It is supposedly ethanol with a touch of Shellac added, intended for spiriting off in French polishing use.
I've used it and there does seem to be very little Shellac in it. Makes me almost think that it's a way to circumvent the alcohol tax laws.
The cost of the finishing spirit is roughly inline with Methylated Spirits (denatured alcohol).
Usually around 5 to 10 % methanol content here in the UK. I've never had a bad reaction to it but at least the Fiddes is an alternative.

http://www.restexpress.co.uk/acatalog/F ... pirit.html