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Anyone know of a good short oil varnish for guitars? Anyone tried Behlens Rock Hard table top varnish?
Looking for the holy grail of in shop hand applied finish.

Tru-Oil or Rockhard are what I use, and I don't spray finish. Tru-Oil is a little easier, but it takes more coats (I usually do 20 or more) so usually also takes a little longer. Rockhard is a little thicker, so it doesn't go on quite as smoothly but builds quicker (6 or 8 coats). Al Caruth has posted a finishing schedule with the additives he uses for Rockhard, that's what I followed.
The key to these finishes is the level sanding between coats. I don't wetsand through the grits after the finish cures, I just buff it out with an 8" automotive type buffer. TruOil gives a pretty high gloss, but it's a little "softer" (in appearance) than polished nitro. The Rockhard looks closer to nitro, and you can let it cure and wetsand like nitro, but I prefer the "soft gloss" and it's easier.

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A man hears what he wants to hear, and disreguards the rest. Paul Simon

Never used varnish on a guitar but Epifanes is highly regarded.

Kevin Looker

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I'm not a luthier.
I'm just a guy who builds guitars in his basement.
It's better than playing golf.

There's been a lot of discussions regarding Pratt & Lambert #38 which is an alkyd varnish (which I guess means "oil based" sort of) on this site. Check out the other discussions for some info. I'm picking up some tung oil tomorrow to test some stuff out.

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http://www.birkonium.com CNC Products for Luthiers
http://banduramaker.blogspot.com

That would be French Polish.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

No, I think that would be Colin Symonds' varnish. I don't exactly know what it is, but I know it's very expensive and resides in a marmalade jar.

For hand applied, I believe Kevin Aram uses the Liberon finishing oil (varnish). I think this is what Colin S has been using lately, too. A lot of people have had success with Tru oil, also which I believe is very similar.

For sprayed varnish, search for Laurent Brondel's finish schedule. There are some posts that are relatively comprehensive. I think he's used Rock hard, P&L 38, and Epiphanes if I recall and I can attest to the beauty of his finishes.
I think Alan Carruth has brushed these finishes with success and there may be some posts with his schedule if you do a search.

Here's one of the threads where Laurent discusses his process. I think there are others. Again, his finishes are great.
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=33010&p=434946&hilit=finish+schedule#p434946

Here is one of the threads where Al discusses his process.
viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=22913&p=315199&hilit=varnish+process#p315199

I use Petit's Z Spar Captain's Varnish. I hand brush it. It was recommended to me by Robert Ruck. It's what he used on his guitars for almost 30 years.

Here's a Myrtle flamenco I finished this way last year.



Max

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Max Bishop
Brighton, Michigan

I completed this little beast last Friday; the finish is hand brushed Epiphanes, sanded level and buffed with Menzerna #18 and #13. Hard to tell in the photo, but the finish is as level and glossy as any lacquer. The colors are done in a shellac base, sprayed-on; but all varnish coats were brushed-on with disposable foam brushes. Anyone can do this at home; the final surface is what -you- make it(in other words, when you "finish the finish"), irregardless of how it was applied...

I'm no expert, but I have achieved what I consider to be good results by brushing or wiping on varnish as well. It is very simple to apply and forgiving and doesn't stink up the house, which is important, as I do my finishing in our guest bedroom.

The only area where I'm not completely satisfied is how my final buffing has turned out and I blame myself, not the varnish. I haven't figured out what it is I'm doing wrong, but each of my efforts has failed to achieve a perfectly clear finish. They look fine from even a few inches away, but if I get up extra close and tilt the guitar at an angle, I can see a kind of cloudiness in the finish. Hard to explain and impossible to photograph, but it looks almost like the iridescent sheen you might see when a bit of gasoline floats on a puddle of water.

I've experimented with various drying times between coats (up to a week each) and let the guitars sit for several weeks before buffing--no difference. So far I have only buffed by hand, working my way up from 500 grit to the highest Micro Mesh.

I would LOVE to know what you guys think might be going on here and how I can avoid this in the future. (Dake - Let me know if this is too much of a hijack and I'll start a new thread.)

Thanks,

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George :-)

I just remembered this thread where Laurent shows examples of instruments finished with different varnishes to illustrate the color difference. You can see how amber the Rock Hard is. I like the color of the Epifanes the best of those pictured. (scroll up a little bit)

viewtopic.php?f=10101&t=32029&p=422785&hilit=epifanes#p422785

I 100% recommend Sutherland Welles products. They are the FINEST quality tung oil products made. I have used their "uralkyd 500" finish for several years now, and it is THE BEST. I have severe allergies, even to water based laquers, and these products have such a low toxicity that they do not bother me at all. I also use Sutherland Welles polymerized tung oil for guitar finishing. The uralkyd 500 is a high quality urethane/alkyd resin system that is perfect for guitar finishing. It is a very hard, yet flexible, finish that will never de-laminate or check as laquer finishes do with time. You can brush it on, it self levels, self cross links each coat, and is the easiest brushing varnish finish I have ever applied (it actually sprays really well if you prefer spraying). Repairs are really easy too. The polymerized tung oil is even simpler, you wipe it on, wait 10 minutes, then wipe it off, repeat. You can even build a surface finish with it. Using the pure polymerized tung oil, you dont have to have any special equipment, and even works in an environment where dust is an issue. I like these products so well that I am now an authorized dealer for all Sutherland Welles products. I will have them available on my ebay store and my guitar website within a few days.

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Guitar Maker and Purveyor of the World's Finest Tonewoods
http://www.aaronhixguitars.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/A-Hix-Tonewood-a ... r-Supplies

Nice mando, Mario!

I have used Epifanes on a couple of mandolins, hand applied with a brush. My method was to pretty much follow the instructions on the can, which is to thin the first coat "...50%, the second coat 25%, the third coat 15%, and additional coats anywhere from 0 to 7%.". After sanding the last coat level, I "French polished" some Tru-oil over it. With varnish, you can sometimes get witness lines if you sand through to previous layers, and the Tru-oil FP was recommended to me, as a method to mask these witness lines. I didn't really see any, but I like the look of it the top coat, anyways.

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Rian Gitar og Mandolin

I get witness lines with the Epiphanes when sanding, but they completely disappear after buffing.

thought I would use varnish on my OLF buid...is it ok straight over z poxy, or is a sealcoat required?????

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MK5acoustics.com

Same here. I'm going to be using a spirits based pore filler to be sure it's compatible.

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"I am always doing that which I cannot do, in order that I may learn how to do it."
Pablo Picasso

https://www.facebook.com/FenskeGuitars

Same here with Behlen's Rockhard.

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

Beautiful job on that mandolin, Mario. Your color choices give it a real "wow" factor. Back on topic, I am really glad to see all the responses in this thread. I've been leaning toward varnish for a couple of instruments I will finish soon.
Patrick