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I just took delivery of some soundboards (2 bearclaw sitka, one AAA Red Cedar) from Alaska Specialty Woods. One of the sitka sets does not have good cross grain stiffness, though it good long grain stiffness, excellent tap tone and amazing figure. I have to this point chosen stiff sets for my guitar tops for headroom. What would you do with this not-stiff set of sitka? A fingerstyle guitar perhaps? Please educate me!

I have to put in a good word for Alaska Specialty Woods here. I had requested stiff sets, and Brent and Annette are working with me to make this order right. They did a great job on the other sitka set and the cedar set. I very much appreciate their professional integrity.

Thanks!

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Mmmm....wood.

James: You do say you are new to building. Going on that I will give my thoughts. Relatively small differances in thicknesses can result in quite a differance in stiffness.If you know someone in your area who is a seasoned builder maybe he could help you. The way most people get to be able to judge wood is by seeing and handling a bunch. Not much help but if you feel the top is really not stiff I would tuck it away for later on when you get more experiance. You may never use it and it may turn into back reinforcing strips. Rather do that then put work into a guitar with a top too floppy. Must say I have never gotten wood from Brent that I would not use. Good luck .
Tom

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A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

i´m new to this also, so take my view with a pinch of salt: how well quartered is the floppy set? if the grain is close to 45º, then you´ve found the reason why it is not stiff. if not, you´ll have to find another culprit... (i´ve never dealt with sitka, but i suppose that with such big logs it would be easy to get well quartered tops). as Tom says, "relatively small differances in thicknesses can result in quite a differance in stiffness" - IIRC if you double the thickness you will increase stiffness by eight times, which means that if your top is not too heavy (dense), a thicker top might be doable. If it´s too heavy, sturdier bracing might do the trick. Based on what i´ve heard i would not build a classical guitar with such a top.

cheers,
miguel.

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member of the guild of professional dilettantes

Yes - don't just reject it out of hand....

There could be several things going on...

One is the top not quite being as long seasoned... I have had tops that seemed floppy when I got them.. but now a year or 2 later - they feel pretty stiff....

The inherent modulus of elasticity may be lower.. so it "Feels" softer at the same thickness... This generally tracks with Density... Lighter tops tend to run softer...

As miguel points out - if you see the grain is way off quarter - like 45* off - then maybe think about sending that one back if you paid a high price....

Another is that it's just not as stiff across the grain... There's nothing inherently wrong with this.... I got a stack of tops on the cheap... A couple were way off quarter and you could roll them up.... A couple were real super stiff cross grain, and 1 was wide grain and seemed quite a bit softer cross grain... but it wasn't anything like the ones you could roll up....

I used that wide grain, a-little-more floppy crossgrain top on my #1 guitar... Turned out to be an absolute gem... No one accuses it of not being loud enough - especially when you dig in with a stiff pick....

The last thing to do is to save it for a smaller body guitar.... especially if it taps real nice.. I personally won't reject a top if it taps with a nice, long, clear, even, bell like tap tone - even if it's ugly...

You will find that the biggest change in guitar top dimensions is Width.... A Jumbo runs 17"+ wide... A Dread 16" wide.. down to a Size 5 around 11" wide - but the tops start at 21" long and go down to 18" long for most guitars... Those narrower, smaller body guitars do much better with tops that aren't as stiff cross-grain...

Thanks

My best classical guitar to date, is my #8 guitar. It was built with the floppiest piece of Spruce I've ever held in my hand. It was a Master Grade set from Cremona Woods, and was a beautiful, perfectly quartered top. However, cross grain it felt like you could wrap it around a pipe. It was very stiff longitudinally. I left it thick in the wings of the lower bout to help counteract the floppiness. All in all, it made an excellent guitar.

My point is, that if you work the top right, you can still get good performance out of it.

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Waddy

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Sound Clips of most of my guitars

+1

Waddy, I've thought about doing exactly that for a classical, using a 45 degree riftsawn top for maximum cross grain flop. Or perhaps depending on the wood (such as a light WRC) instead of leaving the wings thick, leave the whole thing thick, use smaller fan braces (or no braces?), and thin the perimeter around the tailblock. The idea being in either case, to have a stiff long dipole, loose cross dipole, and even stiffness around the perimeter (because a cross grain floppy plate would be much looser in the wings than at the tailblock, if left constant thickness).

Thanks everyone. I am doing some wood thicknessing today (all hail my friend's drum sander!), so I will do some better comparative studies as it were.

I also spoke with Sparky Kramer and he happily invited me up to his shop-about an hour from me-for a little wood tutorial.

I am very encouraged to read that many think the top usable. I little Nick Lucas 00 might be the ticket.

Thanks again!

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Mmmm....wood.