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This has probably been hashed out before,but I thought it might be interesting if we could share some body types and specifics that produced nice sounding guitars.It seems to me that the 12 frets I`ve built by far have the best tone and projection.This seems to be true with either a 000 or an Om.Maybe because the bridge is pushed further back towards the lower bout.Another thing I`ve done is to push the soundhole back to about 6 7/16 centered from the upper bout edge.I`m not sure if i was doing the right thing,it just seemed logical because the bridge is back farther.I don`t have a complete plan for a 000,just a body shape drawing.I kept the standard 3 7/8 sound hole of an OM.I also kept the X braces pretty much where they would be on a standard om .After the first 000 12 fret,I thought maybe this is just an accident.So I built another and a couple of om 12 frets.All of these guitars seem to excel.Maybe someone can jump in here and give some input.Maybe Alan.I`m beginning to wonder about a 12 fret small jumbo.Maybe to weird? So how about some of you folks out there.What have you discovered?
James

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

I have not yet built the best guitar I've ever built.

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I don't hink there is a "best" sounding guitar.
I've made 4 acoustics, finishing 3 more,
and the ones I've made all sound different from one another.
Can't remember how many electrics.
They all sound good to me,
and all have their place.
By that I mean,
this one is good for recording, and playing softly.
This one is loud, and likes C tuning,
this one sounds "big", dig?
To me, they are like tools for different purposes.
Hope that helps.

Hi James, Good to hear you're getting good results on your 12 fretters I haven't built a 12 fretter yet so i can't reflect the difference. I do like the way my X-brace forward guitars are turning out soundwise though. Must also have something to do with the bridge placement on the top plate. Seems to help the bass on my OMs and Dreads. Sustain seems improved as well i've noticed.

I don't feel any ambiguity about my reply at all. Yes, they all have their own qualities, but my first Romanillos-style classical just leaps out of the crowd as the best guitar so far. This was guitar number 6, finished 2 months ago - second and third in this style are on the bench. Pictures and sounds soon, I hope - I'm still waiting for the sound recordings to come back (maybe tomorrow).

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Jim Kirby
kirby@udel.edu

Mark is your favorite x forward a dread?I`ve yet to try this.How far forward did you shift it as compared to normal. You`ve also done this on om and differnt size guitars?And Jim ,I`m with you,it`s not just me,Everyone that plays the 12 frets really like them.Did you do anything different on your classical?
James

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Probably my last 35 guitars have gone through the same store- both commissions and off the wall stuff. They have been selling high end acoustics for 50 years so it's a great place to get real world feedback from critics with some credibility.
General consensus is that #42 a EIRW OM with a Lutz top and BZ bridge is the best out of my stable so far. I think it was mainly the wood.


http://www.thepodium.com/p-17363-kenned ... dlutz.aspx

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Terrence was this a 25.4 14 fret?Did you do anything diferrent that may have enhanced the sound.

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Yes Jim, 25.4 14F. Not much different except I've been voicing a little tighter recently and using hide glue for the frets. I think a lot of it was the wood combination.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

So how do you achieve voicing a little tighter.Do you tap tune trying to get certain frequencies or tune to certain notes,or maybe chladni? Your voicing tighter comment are the kinds of things I was hoping to hear in this thread.

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James W Bolan
Nashville Tennessee

Mainly leaving the top a little thicker, (less deflection) not scalloping the braces as much, and not thinning the edges of the lower bout as much after the box is closed. Kind of going for a little edgier tap tone at each stage. Nothing very scientific.

I can't begin to say how valuable the store has been to my evolution in building. The instruments get played by a lot of great musicians in a short period of time and you know quickly whether you have a dud or a gem.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Terrence - that is a lovely sounding OM! Do you recall how thick you left the lutz top, if I may ask?

My favorite so far is a 12-fret single aught koa I built with my daughter. Built light, and it too was built a little tighter than usual. Surprisingly large, full sound, even as small body guitars go. It was pretty good and then it opened up from getting a lot of play at a local folk festival a few weeks ago, and really sounded great. Others might be contenders, but I haven't been able to play them after sending them off to customers. I've been thinking I could send off emails to locals who've bought them and offer a free checkup.

In planning my personal guitar, I'm leaning towards a 00 or 00 12-fret with a cutaway, perhaps deeper to make up for the lost air volume. The drier, more fundamental tone from lighter woods such as koa, mahogany, walnut and others is beginning to grow on me. I think the length of the body in relation to its width and the tight waist of the traditional 12-fret body may be factors in their sound. I'm not sure of the mechanics of how the tight waist plays into it, but the length could accommodate longer sound waves (or not).

Pat

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formerly known around here as burbank
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http://www.patfosterguitars.com

I'm out of town now but I'll check when I get back. Probably around .114 or so.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

Interesting. From what I understand luthiers usually say a thinner top in the 009 range gives a better sound. Also surely many hear that thinning out edges makes for more movement and thus better sound. One wonders sometimes what to listen to. So much theory is speculation and can be barking up the wrong tree, but comes across as scientific. I wonder if snake oil ever helps...

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Thanks Terence!

after 145 guitars I find the the old designs with tucked braces and HHG or fish glue seem to make a difference. I am a traditionalist in my building and love the old prewar designs. That is just me as this is a question that is dealing in subjective input.

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John Hall
blues creek guitars
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James, I move the x-brace intersection 1/2" forward on my dreads as well as my Oms and like the results on both.

I looked it up Charlie. Pretty thick for an OM at 0.118 (3mm). Deflection was .066 with 1 lb over the bridge plate area with the soundhole cut out. Top of the X brace was 9.55" from the top of the upper bout.

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It's not what you don't know that hurts you, it's what you do know that's wrong.

My best so far is a Spanish guitar I built with standard Torres stlye 7-fan bracing. The body is Imbuia and the the top is Western Red Cedar and *gasp* the bridge is Ebony . It has just about everything I love about the classical guitar in it sound wise. I've been trying to recreate it ever since and can only come close. Of course she has aged about ten years by now too. I keep her and play about once a week at least.