Official Luthiers Forum!

Hello good people of the OLF! I'm currently working on a 2 1/2-style parlor that's sort of a hybrid of old and new. One of the traditional aspects I'm attempting is the bridle, or "bird's beak" joint approach of joining the neck to the peghead, as illustrated by John Greven and Charles Freeborn in American Lutherie 102. Long story short, I short-sided myself by cutting one of the angles too deep, thereby causing the nut location to move south by an eighth of an inch. For reasons unbeknownst to me now, I didn't leave myself much, well any, wiggle room on the neck length, so the only way to salvage the neck is to make the dovetail shallower -- 1/2" instead of 5/8". Is this structurally acceptable, or should I scrap it and start over? It wouldn't be too great a loss since I only have a few hours in it thus far. Thanks in advance, and have a great day!

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

I don't have any experience with dovetails so can't comment, but is is possible to move the nut "up", by fitting it on the slope of the headstock rather than on the flat section of the neck under the fingerboard to maintain distance to the dovetail?
Useless of course if that's already in the design.

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The name catgut is confusing. There are two explanations for the mix up.

Catgut is an abbreviation of the word cattle gut. Gut strings are made from sheep or goat intestines, in the past even from horse, mule or donkey intestines.

Otherwise it could be from the word kitgut or kitstring. Kit meant fiddle, not kitten.

Great suggestion, Colin, but yes, that's the way it's laid out already.

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com

My dovetails (the part on the neck) are 1/2" long. I cut the pocket in the neck block ~5/8" deep.

Link to picture http://brackettinstruments.com/Dovetail%20neck%20attachment.JPG

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I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

+1 Same here.

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Michael Lloyd

“I was born to ignorance, yes, and lesser poverties ...
I was born to privilege that I did not see ... I didn’t know it, but my way was paved” – John Gorka

Appropriate depth would depend slightly on the angle used. Steeper angles seem to stay tighter at shallower depths.

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Brian

You never know what you are capable of until you actually try.

https://www.howardguitarsdelaware.com/

Ken,
Woody and Michael also stated a second consideration. Their mortises are 1/8-inch deeper than their dovetail tenons. I believe this is a very good practice. It provides room in the pocket for glue squeeze, and it leaves a little space to insert a steam needle--should you ever need to remove the neck for a re-set or repair. The dovetail on my archtop was just a hair over 1/2-inch, and I've had no problems with it.
Patrick

IMHO, 1/2" is fine. Though Martins are 5/8" deep typically, I have repaired many guitars that functioned well with shallower joints.

I cut the dovetail in the block before it is installed in the guitar (Martin method). I cut the dovetail on the neck the same depth, using the same setting on the table saw. By that method, the thickness of the sides determines the gap at the end of the dovetail.

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John

Thanks, everyone for your replies. I now feel confident moving forward with this neck. John, how do you cut a dovetail pocket on the tablesaw? Is it a straight, through-dovetail, like on a mandolin? I'd love to see images of your process.

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Mountain Song Guitars www.mountainsongguitars.com