Official Luthiers Forum!

I have a friend with one of these. He says it does not have a truss rod, and is now unplayable. Was this how they were produced then? He said he recieved an offer to have the finger board CNC'd down, truss installed, new FB etc installed. Kind of expensive at $800-$1000.

Why not remove the FB? I guess one would need to remove the neck too so it can be flattened. Alright, enough of my guessing.

What say ya'll?

Mike

there is a truss rod but it is a non adjustable rod. This is a square steel tube. The neck most likely will need a reset. Also if the frets are in need of replacement you need to do a compression refret. here is a link to a D 18 that has the same construction that you can see how that would have to be accomplished.
http://theunofficialmartinguitarforum.y ... ly-1193085
A truss rod will only adjust the necks relief. While there is a some effect on the action and saddle height in most cases , this age of a guitar is due for a neck reset. If in fact he is the original owner , this would be covered as long as an authorized CF Martin repair center does the work and he has the guitar registered with them as the original owner.
Don't let your friend take it back to the person that offered to CNC the neck , for he knows nothing about CF Martin guitars and may very well destroy it.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

John, What if the guitar was handed down from father to son, and father has passed away? Would Martin still do it?

Mike

I believe the warranty would have died with the original owner. I suspect it needs a neck reset, and refret. Find someone who's experienced with working on Martins from that era for repairs.

_________________
I didn't mean to say it, but I meant what I said.
http://www.brackettinstruments.com/

On one of Dan Erlewines DVD he slides a square stick of carbon fiber up inside the square non-adjustable truss rod. He also say alot of the '70s dreads have an intonation problem where the bridge & saddle are a smidgen to forward. His DVD on "Neck Resetting" shows a '70s Martin getting its neck reset. Nice vid to get and watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

_________________
"After forty-nine years of violin building, I have decided that the search for a varnish is similar to the fox hunt. The fun is in the hunt."
Jack Batts Maker and Repairer of Fine Violins

If the neck is bowed, it can be straightened without removing it from the body.
The options are to compression refret, install an adjustable rod, or simply reglue the fingerboard and the square tube with HHG.
An adjustable truss rod can be installed without replacing the fingerboard. In other words, the original fingerboard can be removed and reused. I have even done it without replacing the frets.
Without more information, it is impossible to determine whether a neck reset is necessary.

_________________
John

When, if, I get it, I will post tons of pics.

Mike

Sounds like a typical every day run of the mill Martin neck reset. IMHO no need for adjustable rods, carbon fiber, CNC, or nothin but a neck reset and possible refret. Would be under $500 in my shop.

take special note of john's comment on the possible need for compression fretting in the case of an up bowed neck.

this is not a technique which should be attempted unless you have a fair bit of experience behind you because done poorly it can make a mess of the guitar.

the proferred cnc job, etc., would destroy potential vintage value.

neck resets on these old martins are like wheel alignments on cars, just routine maintenance.

Well, as it turns out, his dad is among the living. I did not know that. I just assumed because of the way he spoke that that was not the case. So, he's gonna call Martin and see if it is registered. If it is and it's covered, that is the best way to go, clearly.

Mike

I finally got that D28. It is in remarkably good shape. But, it's intonation is indeed off. No matter how well I tune it, certain chords just sound bad.

The saddle is not compensated. So far as I can tell, the bridge has never been removed. The pick guard is lifting around the edges.

At first look, the appears to be very little bend in the neck. I will check this more carefully. I can detect (visually) a very very slight bow in the neck.

Here is why he never sent it in for repair at Martin: Saddle and nuts heavily modified to lower action. First 6 frets replaced. All of the strings except the low E are burried in the nut. Much of the saddle is gone. No way there is anything close to 50% above and below the bridge slot.

Here is what I am contemplating (assuming neck bend is not real): New nut, new saddle.

Mike

I owned a 72 D-41 that had a warped(bowed forward) neck. It was like that when I bought it from a friend. I took it to Elderly Inst. here in Michigan. The repairman, Steve, removed all of the frets and installed new frets with a wider tang and did a set-up. He did a super job and I never had another problem. He told me that he learned this repair at the Martin factory. He is still at Elderly Inst. if you want to contact him and I am sure that he will answer any questions that you have. Pals, Vic.

I do not "see" much of a bow. And I'm trying to estimate that while the strings are on. So, I will do a better visual inspection tonight with a straight edge, some feeler gauges and a bright light. I was expecting more bend than what I saw in my preliminary inspection. And I was expecting a compression fretting was going to be in order.

Can the nut and saddle issues I described account for any of the inotnation problems?

Or, can a very slight amount of bend do this? (and I mean slight).

It might be possible that the 6 frets that were replaced were under sized?

Mike

call me Mike if you need to

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

Mike: Martins made in the 70's were noted for having the bridge set in the wrong location,thus the bad intonation. Best for you to measure and see if this is the case with this guitar.

Tom

_________________
A person who has never made a mistake has never made anything!!!

I own a 71 since new with these "same exact" problems, except the neck had too much relief. It had been to Martin early in its life, and they planed the fret board at the ends, so it was thin.
The bridge was glued well, so I made a new fret board with a slightly shortened scale to take care of the intonation.
I removed the square rod & replaced it with enough carbon fiber.
The bare neck was planed flat before the new board installed.
Since it was for my son, he didn't pay anything for the repair.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008907949110

Hmmm. Not doing a darn thing till I get a better cognitive picture in my head. and I don't yet. I will take some pics and post them this weekend. I will also do some 12th fret measurements. And somehow, I will find a way to show any neck bend under load.

I just put together a d28 build for a client. Intonation was perfect. Looking at this one, I'm mystified. It's really in good shape.

Ok, need to ask this. What exactly justifies a neck reset? And exactly what is meant by this?

I hate asking questions like this cause I know I'm gonna get an earful of admonishments/warnings. But that's ok, I don't mind admitting I'm ignorant. That's how I learn.

Mike

Mike, the neck needs to be reset when, to get the string height over the 12th fret in an acceptable range, the saddle needs to be lowered to the point where there is unacceptable break over.
If, to get the action low enough to play comfortably, someone says "the bridge needs to be planed down or thinned" then the neck should be reset instead.

The neck is removed by first unsticking the fretboard extension from the top, then either removing the fretboard entirely (if it is going to be replaced) or drilling a hole or two thru the 15th fret slot into the dovetail end gap and piping in steam using a needle.
A jig is made to push the neck free from the joint when it becomes loose enough.
Do not hammer on the neck heel, do not do it. I know I don't have to tell you that, but I have to say it for someone else who may be reading this.

Then the neck dovetail is fitted until the neck angle is correct, just like a new guitar, shimming where necessary.

_________________
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008907949110

I will never, never never, never, ever install an oversize bridge to correct intonation. It is totally unnecessary, and you forever have a guitar that is cursed with an ugly bridge.....or an ugly oversize footprint if you decide to go back.

_________________
John

I have done enough of these that I try not to make an oversized bridge. My preference is to remove the air craft carrier plate and replace it with maple then I plug the top and I know that I can in most cases make the new bridge fit the old footprint. As you can see there are many takes on the repair technique to use.
I would like to hear what Mr Arnold and Todd's take on removing the plate. I think it sure does help the sound quality.

_________________
John Hall
blues creek guitars
Authorized CF Martin Repair
Co President of ASIA
You Don't know what you don't know until you know it

If I am moving the pin holes down, I prefer to replace the bridgeplate or at least install a thin strip of wood over it. That way, the string balls are not resting on the plugs.

I just repaired a 1974 D-28 that appeared to have been sat on. There were loose and broken X-braces, and the bridge had lifted and broken the top and bridgeplate straight across the grain at the front edge of the bridge. The top was sunken about 3/8" in the center. I removed the large rosewood bridgeplate, installed a red spruce patch, then installed a small maple bridgeplate.
After regluing the braces, the top was pretty flat, and there was no need for a reset. I made a new bridge with the saddle and pin holes moved down about 0.15" for correct intonation.
I wedge-fretted the neck, and the guitar came out to be one of the all-time best EIR/Sitka Martin dreads I have ever played.
The owner is a dyed-in-the-wool believer in scalloped braces, but I convinced him that this particular one needed no help in that regard.

_________________
John